Hey, Athletes! Do you know what clean eating is? Tune in to this week’s episode to find out about clean eating and more!
Episode 62 of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up!
What is “Clean Eating” and Pacing Revisited
In this week’s episode, the four coaches are back and they give their updates and announcements before diving into the study. This week’s study is over cleaning and what that means. The team give their thoughts on the study and talk about how they view clean eating. This week’s topic is about pacing. Each coach talks about how they pace different training sessions and give some tips on how you too can accomplish this. This week’s Meet Yourself Saturday workout is Heavy Load Short Distance and the team gives their tips and tricks on how to tackle it.
If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast either on Stitcher, iTunes, or Google Play by using the link below:
IN THIS 55-MINUTE EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
- Clean Eating
- Joe’s In The Great State of Texas
- Rock Mix for MYS Workout
- Heavy Load Short Distance
- Joe Can Officiate at Weddings Now
- Updates and Announcements
- And A LOT MORE!!
If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here are some links for you:
Study of the Week
- “It’s Healthy Because It’s Natural.” Perceptions of “Clean” Eating among U.S. Adolescents and Emerging Adults
Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week
Be sure to listen to this week’s episode:
Related Resources at End of Three Fitness:
Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!
To becoming better!
Episode 62: What is “Clean Eating” and Pacing Revisited
[00:00:00] Jerred Moon: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage gym athlete podcast. I’m your host, Jared moon, the garage. The mathlete podcast is a result of my desire to build better humans, unequivocal coaches, and autonomous athletes. I’ve spent the last several years obsessing over Graham design nutrition in every other way, you can optimize human performance.
This podcast is stills, the light scientific research with what I’ve learned and blends it with the not so scientific field of mental toughness. We are here to build you into a dangerously effective athlete. If you enjoy this podcast, you can find out more about our firstname.lastname@example.org. And if you want to pursue more into the field of coaching and programming, head to email@example.com.
Thanks for listening.
All [00:01:00] right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage gym athlete podcast. Jared moon here with Kyle Schrum. What’s up Kyle,
Kyle Shrum: making me go first.
Jerred Moon: I’m just saying how’s it going, man? And then we have Joe Courtney and Ashley Hicks.
Kyle Kyle. How’s life.
Joe Courtney: He has a fantastic updates.
Jerred Moon: Yeah.
Kyle Shrum: Life is good. That’s my update.
Joe Courtney: This will be gone.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. Nothing else. We’re all good. You’re good.
Kyle Shrum: Yep.
Jerred Moon: We’re good. Alright. Hey, he hates all of us is an update, Joe how’s life.
Joe Courtney: I am in Texas. I’m one hour away from Jared right now, but we don’t like each other enough to actually get together. So
Jerred Moon: we’re trying to make it happen.
Joe Courtney: Yeah. Yeah.
Jerred Moon: You come over whenever you want.
That’s kind of my rule quite if I’m not, if I’m not here, then that don’t come over then.
Joe Courtney: Okay. I don’t even know where your new house is anyway, so I’m not going to go find you. and you [00:02:00] know, all the heat that Jared was complaining about, I don’t know where it is in Texas feels glorious right now.
Jerred Moon: Cause it’s not a swamp.
I’m glad you’re here for a while. Cause you’re trying to, you’re trying to take shots right now. The hurricanes moving through, which is it’s great. It’s bringing us into like whatever, mid low nineties, but I see on the forecast one Oh two, one Oh four, I think over the weekend. Yeah. You’ll see it. You’ll see what happens.
Joe Courtney: Yeah. Real
Jerred Moon: lumpy. Well, welcome to Texas. One of the great States in the union.
Joe Courtney: Yeah.
Jerred Moon: Tennessee is up there. Kyle. I’m not not saying Texas is better than 10. Like
Joe Courtney: geographically it’s up there. I don’t know about ratings up
Jerred Moon: there. Really? Any state that doesn’t pay income tax. I’m just going to go ahead and say.
Yeah, look, that’s three of us. There we go.
Joe Courtney: I’ll have to stay to declare right now. So yeah, actually technically, technically I’m a Texas resident, so my license,
Jerred Moon: so we all agree. [00:03:00] Any updates to anything?
Joe Courtney: I said I was in Texas.
Jerred Moon: That’s all I got. That’s all I got, man. Ever since you lost the beard, just updates.
It really gone downhill from just not,
Joe Courtney: not as exciting
Jerred Moon: little yelling
Joe Courtney: force company. Those days are times
Jerred Moon: I’m gonna have to make up for with more like interesting stories. Actually. How’s the life.
Ashley Hicks: My first good.
Yeah, life is good. I am super sore from getting back to 100%. GGA what I mean, 100%. I mean, like I’ve been doing grad school. I’ve just been, yeah. Trying to
Jerred Moon: train
Ashley Hicks: harder, trying harder. so yeah, my body is, is definitely feeling it, especially my calves with running one day and then double unders right after.
So my calves are like, what have you done? But it’s a good thing. and it’s nice to get back and feel okay. Field is again, [00:04:00] I guess that I don’t know. I feel like I I’ve been. Just, I know it was for health reasons, but at the same time, it just, it felt a little bit like cheating, I guess. And so it’s nice to be able to get back
Jerred Moon: at it, but,
Joe Courtney: it hurts so good.
Ashley Hicks: It hurts so bad, but I also did an audition for a.
Joe Courtney: America’s got talent.
Ashley Hicks: No, for our worship team at church today. And it was actually one of the coolest experiences ever, just because they have like click tracks. So you wear these in ear, you know, like buds and you hear. The everyone that’s playing as well as like I click track.
So that way the click track is basically a metronome. So that way you can not like get off with each other. So you’re actually like all in on time. So the drummer’s not off in the anyways, it was. Really cool. Kind of intimidating, cause I’ve never auditioned for a worship team before, but yeah, this church has got some really cool [00:05:00] things.
So it was kinda fun.
Jerred Moon: Do some fitness uses there as
Joe Courtney: well. Did you ask them where you can get some for your gym workout per metric by metric? Yeah.
Jerred Moon: No. I would like some headphones that play only click tracks from my workout.
Ashley Hicks: That is like my worst nightmare. I am a choral person. Like I grew up with chorus and Scott grew up
Jerred Moon: with.
Ashley Hicks: That’s band. So like he is used to the metronome and he loves it. Like the metronome is my worst nightmare. So when we do squats or pushups or whatever to it, like I hate it.
Jerred Moon: But
Ashley Hicks: yeah, just the sound like, you know, the actual, like doing it, whatever.
Jerred Moon: Maybe how about a chime is that
Joe Courtney: Cal bell?
Ashley Hicks: I think that would be more annoying.
Joe Courtney: More cowbell for that. Yeah.
Ashley Hicks: Anyways, Jared, how’s your life going?
Jerred Moon: That’s good. I have a ton of updates. More, more stories, huh?
Joe Courtney: Please.
Jerred Moon: Actually, I only have two updates. One. The sauna is officially hooked up. So [00:06:00] pretty happy about that. I, any, well, here’s the full story on that? So the electrician came over to hook it up.
I lost the book. About the heater and the move. It’s like how to hook up the heater, give this to your electrician. It’s basically what it says. I lost that. I couldn’t find one online either. So he came and he hooked it up and, it was, it was working. He left and then I realized that he did not install the emergency safety gage.
That is an emergency shutoff for if it gets too hot,
Joe Courtney: you don’t have a floor. That’s six important.
Jerred Moon: Yeah, I was just literally was on the floor. it could, I didn’t say anything about it either. Cause I forgot. So we’ll see, like Joe knows what to do if, if I go out. In flames. So he’s got the emergency packet.
but I think I, I have just hit the override switch to how hot it can get in. There is the long story [00:07:00] short. I think I can probably crank this thing up to like two 30 now and watch the sweat boil off my skin. So we’re going to see what happens. Hopefully nothing burns down. Luckily it’s in a detached garage, so only the garage would burden down.
I would have I’d have my hose out way before it got to my house. So we’re good there. Perfect. Yeah. So that’s that on the sauna? And I mentioned the last time I had really locked up my diet, which means for me right now is very low carb. And I’m going to say that I went about a 50% reduction in carbohydrates from what I was doing to what I’m doing right now.
And I have suffered miserably the last two workouts. And I actually didn’t know why it just took me a minute because. Out of my diet. Hasn’t been that much different. I just been eating a lot less carbohydrates than I was, and it was brain biscuit where I come, it clicked, it just like completely clicked when I was doing burpees.
[00:08:00] And I was like, like, I just didn’t want to do burpees anymore. And I felt like I couldn’t really, and it wasn’t like, like you’re not that tired. Like you don’t really, like, I don’t really care about doing hard work. I’m like, yeah, you keep moving. But I just felt like. Like I couldn’t, I was like, I can’t move anymore.
I’m like, Oh yeah, this is like, you’re out of glycogen. Like you don’t have any more energy to provide for this workout. So I must live my way through it and realized I needed to be way more intentional about my carbohydrates. Pre-workout again, which is, this is, this is how things were like a year, year and a half ago.
And the reason I kind of stopped is cause I just like to be full of carbohydrates and be able to perform any time. But. That’s where I’m at right now. It’s an interesting place to be.
Joe Courtney: So you’re not waiting. You’re just, kind of intuitively eating.
Jerred Moon: No, I mean, I ha I’m eating basically the same thing every single day.
Aside from dinner, Emily [00:09:00] normally cooks dinner, but I would say the macros on those are generally generally pretty close. They’re just different meals. And so I mapped everything out to make sure I was getting enough food. Cause I, that can happen to me. If I died, I ended up just like. Hungry and not eating enough.
but I made sure I was eating enough, had to add some meals in and stuff. So I, and that’s kind of how I do it. I don’t like to count every single day. I like too much PTSD from, from that, but I do just like count at once. Make sure everything’s good. And then just do that and eat the same thing every day.
Joe’s heaven. Okay. Yeah, no, no variety eat the same thing every single day. That’s it for me. You guys want to talk pseudo science? I mean science.
Ashley Hicks: Yeah.
Jerred Moon: Okay. Yeah.
Kyle Shrum: My favorite kind of science.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. So, this is, this is kind of a study. It’s definitely a study. Technically it’s published as a study. It is called it’s healthy because it’s natural [00:10:00] perceptions of clean eating among us adolescents and emerging adults.
Alright. There was a large survey, 945 to 1020 responses per question of 14 to 24 year old. Old’s asked five questions about clean eating. While 54.6% had heard of it. Responses varied. When participants were asked to define it, 38.7% associated with health 29.7% with food restriction and 39.7% with processed versus whole foods and 0.6 expressed skepticism regarding its healthiness and validity.
And that’s about all I’m going to dive into because there is a lot of information you can. Dig out of this. So if you want, if this, after we talk about it and you do want to die, I into this, any podcast listener, right? Go to our show notes [00:11:00] at the blog. There’ll be a link to that study. When you click on the study, there’s also, this one is actually available in its full text, which is not true of every study.
Some studies costs like 50 bucks for you to read the whole thing, as opposed to, as you normally just get the abstract, which is the small couple of paragraphs. So you can get the full study. You can dive into every single bit of this. If you want to, and look at the tables that we’re talking about and all the breakdowns, really what they were doing with this one was, Assessing the impression of clean eating through a sample of young adults in the U S in pre adults, adolescents.
And I found it really interesting because I learned something here, I didn’t know before. And that was clean. Eating can have negative connotations is that’s what I pulled out of this study, but there’s a lot of, a lot of stuff to unpack. whoever wants to go first on, on, you know, big takeaways they got from this, clean eating study.
Is it good? Is it bad? What do you guys think from having read this?
Joe Courtney: I think it was really cool and [00:12:00] there’s a ton to unpack and especially, I mean, from us, it’s, it’s almost like they did a study for us that we would ask our athletes, but they asked, you know, 1200 people of what the percentage of cleaning, you know, and they only asked what it looks like five questions.
And from those five questions, a. He broke the responses and what they’ve meant and how they perceived. And it was, it was pretty interesting the overall like 75% or so, we’re thinking of things where the cleaning and stuff was healthy, but there were some of the things that came off that at first I would, I kind of laughed at it cause it was just like ridiculous.
let’s see if I can find it. Oh, one of the on when they asked them, how would you define clean eating? one of the, you got some people that were skeptical about it, and somebody said that clean eating early common response was cleaning is just any eating or food that is healthy sounding, but not actually healthy.
And I kind of laughed at that and going like, Oh, this is a clean eating, just like conspiracy. Is that, that was this person’s saying. But then I thought of, well, [00:13:00] actually this kind of. It’s kind of tied more into the healthier community that, you know, something is going to sound healthier than it is, but it’s not actually, and this is like when the dirty Keith yo and the dirty vegan stuff comes to board where marketing is the real enemy and that they’ve flashed certain things that sound healthy on the front, but on the back, it is not at all.
And I think that’s when people, what, what some of the negative side effects about some of these. People that try and clean eat because as people don’t know where to go, no know where to start and marketing just makes things even worse. And I’ve, I’ve talked to this a lot about my dad about it because he wants to eat cleaner.
He wants to do all this stuff and he obviously he can cook. But he just doesn’t know where to start. He’ll he’ll, he’ll hear from one thing from one, some parts, some source, and they’ll hear another from another. And it’s like, there’s no consistency. No, no, nothing but marketing just muddies the water. It makes it even worse.
So I think people just throw their hands up of what they think is right clean. Or they just go back to the old, you know, in moderation, which I [00:14:00] also kind of hate the, you know, I think the in moderate and moderation slogan is a trap, but that was just, it was cool to see. How people perceive clean eating and like, say people who can go and look at all these responses, see how they all broken down too, because, and I think it will help us as coaches to see how people can, can actually do view clean eating and what they asked.
And it’s like, okay, what? Like, and then when I tell them what they need is, okay, now what I’m gripping you eating and see how those things change.
Ashley Hicks: I think also too, to be mindful as the, the age group that they asked, you know, I mean, there’s some young 14, you know, at 14, what would your answer be, you know, think
Joe Courtney: back to what would your taco bells?
Jerred Moon: Muslim life.
Ashley Hicks: Yeah, for sure. I am with Jared on this. Like I did not perceive like a negative connotation with clean eating and, and I guess, because my definition of clean eating is holistic nutrient dense food. [00:15:00] Meaning we always talk about the perimeter of the grocery store, right. And so that’s how I view clean eating.
You’re eating food that is real, you know, you have something that’s grown from a farm or killed from a, you know, from a farm, you know, hopefully grass fed, stuff like that. and not processed boxed food that you know, can be terrible for your body. but I see what they mean, I guess, in the, in the.
Instance of these are younger adults, so they could maybe put a negative connotation on the food saying like, this is a bad food. So I’m going to stay away from it and potentially have some sort of eating disorder. But in my personal opinion, clean eating is not a negative thing. And I think that. One thing you have to realize is whether you’re keto or vegan or paleo or whatever it is, whatever label that you want to choose or not have a label.
It is abs everybody’s nutrition. Nutrition is different for [00:16:00] everybody. And there is not one diet out there or one, not one clean fat, I guess that you could say that works for everyone except yeah. Eating holistic food. I would say, I don’t think that that is a bad thing. I don’t think that that is, I think that’s a good place to start.
So like exactly what you said, Joe. My, my father is the same way. He’s super overweight. He wants to get. Into gear into eating clean, but he doesn’t know where to start and you know, but he’ll bring up the box, Mac and cheese, or he’ll bring out like Stouffer’s lasagna or whatever the heck it is. And it’s like that that is not where you need to start.
You need to start actually, you know, from. Lean source meat and also maybe local stuff, as well as, you know, a bunch of vegetables and you can get starches and starches aren’t necessarily a bad thing. You know, Jared talked about cutting back his cards, but carbohydrates aren’t necessarily a bad thing. And I think you have to not view food as this is a [00:17:00] bad food and this is a good food, you know?
Kyle Shrum: I think blaming or limiting beliefs play a big role in all of this and people having the right mindset towards eating in general. And I think that’s what they were trying to get at with this study. Is there are some, there, there are some limiting beliefs. There could potentially be some pitfalls with false information about nutrition.
And especially when you’re talking about a young demographic like this, a 14 to 24, you know, if, if we can. You know, teach that demographic of people. Proper nutrition and the proper attitude towards nutrition and how to approach it and how to eat properly. If we can teach them that, then we’re not going to have 40 and 50 and 60 year olds who are overweight and trying to get started eating the right way.
You know what I mean? If we can get the meeting, the right white nail, then we’re not going to have that problem in the future. But the [00:18:00] issue is that with this demographic, and I know this demographic. Intimately because I was a youth minister for seven years, you know, so I’m working with teenagers and, and so I know that not just the source of their, the biggest source of their nutrition, they boss, which is what this study shows, in social media, but like basically their source primary source of information for almost everything in their lives is social media.
And so, but that was kind of something that stuck out to me was. In the study, it said, these results also suggest a need to promote social media literacy, which was identified as the top source of information for clean eating among our respondents. Indeed. Social media is an important source of information about healthy eating.
for example, Facebook and Instagram are used to guide nutrition related decision making. And when I read that, I was like, Oh, no, like Facebook and Instagram are teaching these people how to eat properly. And I’m just [00:19:00] like, that’s not good. That’s probably okay. Not a great thing. you know, I think, I think there can be good information out there on social media, but I don’t think it should be your primary source for getting information, especially when it comes to nutrition.
and so, I kind of see see it from that perspective that. You know, getting the right information out there and getting it into people’s heads early is an important thing, to keep, to get them on the right track and help keep them on the right track moving forward.
Joe Courtney: Yeah. I think actually something else that I wanted to bring up that’s piggybacking off of that is when they study the people that.
Ask them. If they’ve heard about clean eating half more than half people have said that they had, but breaking down of where the source of where they found clean eating or heard of clean eating the largest majority of where they heard it from was from up here 44.7%. And then, Oh, there is another end specified person.
Wasn’t it? 32%. So the vast majority is hearing it from somebody. So that’s somebody that you have to surround yourself from. [00:20:00] But a health professional was only 8% and educators were only 1.7%. So under 10% people are you’re in this firm who you would think should be the, the people that know and educating people about it.
But yeah. People have to hear about it from peers and second sources. And like, I mean, how I’ve learned most about nutrition is reading books. Not anything I learned in school or anything like that. So it’s, it’s just crazy to see. And, and like, it’s something that I’ve always, always kind of known that, you know, we’ve, we’ve talked to doctors and stuff before and you, you read about that and how they don’t get any nutrition.
Talk in their, in their, in their medical school. But to see it actually broken down into the study of, you know, 1200 people that the vast majority of people are not hearing this from anybody like that. It’s more about peers is, was, was pretty interesting.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. And the social media thing is a bit alarming to me just because it’s pretty apparent that social media, Facebook, YouTube, and hopefully this isn’t too [00:21:00] controversial for.
for anybody, but they’re, they’re headed down the censorship path pretty hard. it used to be completely open source. And now, I mean, you’ve already seen it with a pandemic. If someone was trying to post an article about, bleach being the cure for COVID-19 Facebook was quick to censor those things, not allowed in your newsfeed.
Hey, that’s probably good. Right? Like that’s probably good. That really ridiculous information like that. Doesn’t get out to the public, nonetheless it’s censorship. and that is an extreme case. Cause I think we can all agree. Not drinking bleach is a good thing. but I’ve seen a lot of reports from Rob Wolf, that his post on Instagram gets censored now because he basically, he’s just not.
He’s not in with the mainstream vegan mentality, which is where a lot of things are headed. And so what Facebook and YouTube, Google, what they do is they look at, they try to look at some source. They don’t try to make the decision. So they’re like, Hey, the world health organization says this, these are the best practices for COVID-19.
So we’re going to [00:22:00] sensor anything that doesn’t agree with. There are best practices. And now all we need is the world health organization to come out with, Hey, this is the best human diet. Facebook has an organization to point to. So now anything that’s posted nutritionally, that goes against world world health organization.
Guidelines will start to sensor. This hasn’t happened yet, but apparently it’s starting to happen to Rob Wolf. And now we’re going to have all these people getting nutritional information. That’s censored, and I’m not, again, I don’t care. If the information, all the information that they’re putting out there or censoring is stuff I would want it to be censored and I think is bad.
That’s irrelevant. It’s just whether or not you agree with censorship, I think is the big, the big issue here. And so how do we all agree on nutrition? And we can’t, we just can’t, that’s why I don’t have a camp anymore because I just, there it’s impossible. It’s impossible to be. Right. And yeah, I agree. A hundred percent with Ashley that everything is so individualized, like.
Working with so many people, I’ve just realized, okay, that works [00:23:00] for you, that this works for you. there is no one size fit all or a macro plan that fits everybody. you have to change and see what, see what does work for you. So that’s, that’s a big part of it. I do think it’s interesting that a lot of people had heard of clean eating it’s more than I thought would have just heard of it.
And a lot of people, I think it was close to 40% actually knew what it was. That was more whole foods based. yeah, more hopeful food, nutrient dense diet. Right. And I, I think that’s good. I thought that was some positive. Okay. Pulled out of it. Now the negative side of this is I think the only negative is, is fear.
And this is what I wanted to bring every garage, gym athletes, attention to, if you ever get, start to get fear. Around food. You’re headed down the disorder path because I think it’s fine to call this food. Good. This food bad. If you’re okay with it. If you start to become afraid, like we’ve had a lot of conversations about alcohol lately.
Like, I don’t want to drink a lot of alcohol, but I’m not going, like, when I drink a [00:24:00] beer, I decided to drink a beer. I have no fear around it. I’m not like, I’m not like, Oh gosh, what am I doing? Like tomorrow? You know, it’s just like, what I actually think is, yeah, I might not feel a hundred percent tomorrow, but that’s the same decision I make when I do heavy back squats.
I’m like, man, my legs are gonna be a little sore tomorrow. If I do this, I’m okay. That’s fine. They’re there, there is a, a result to every action that we take. and, but if I, if you become afraid of it, that’s where I think you need to bring your awareness to, okay. You might need to stop what you’re doing.
Cause I think everyone here could agree that we don’t think that McDonald’s is good. Yeah, could we do something in order? You know, no bun and all this stuff, let’s just come on. McDonald’s is not good. It’s not, it’s just, and we can all say it’s a bad food, but if I had to eat it on a road trip to survive or whatever, quote, unquote survive, what would I, would I do it
Joe Courtney: on a deserted Island?
There’s only a
Jerred Moon: McDonald’s right. I keep trying to come up with these situations and where like, like last week or two weeks ago, it was like, glycolytic like, how many cases do you [00:25:00] truly need to be? Glycolytic running for your life. That’s it. but saying like if I had to eat McDonald’s and I made that choice, I wouldn’t be scared.
I wouldn’t be like, Oh, Oh my gosh. I’m so what’s going to happen to my insides. It’s the anti-nutrients are going in and ripping my gut apart and, you know, punching my spleen and, you know, kicking my liver, you know what, so anyway, once you go down that path, Revisit how you feel about food. Otherwise, if you don’t have, you’re not, you don’t have any fear about food.
I think it’s okay to have rules again, you know, with food until it starts to starts to lead to some sort of a disorder or, or whatever. and that’s kinda my take on this whole thing. Don’t, don’t allow fear to enter your psyche when it comes to nutrition. If you ever head down that road, maybe you shouldn’t be on any sort of plan just as like.
Lego do whatever feels good. and that’s my honest, cause it’s, it’s way harder mentally to get out of that, than it is anything else. So that’s my take on all this.
Oh yeah. I wanted to read the five questions. Now that we’re at the end of talking [00:26:00] about the study, but the five questions they asked were, have you previously heard about clean eating? If so, how did you hear about it? Question two. How would you define clean eating question three? Clean eating usually means eating natural whole foods and strictly avoiding processed foods.
Knowing that what is your opinion of clean eating? Question four. Do you think clean eating is healthy or harmful? Tell us why question five. How likely would you be to try clean eating for yourself? One equals probably will not try it two. Not sure. Three. Probably we’ll try it. I mean, and I can just rant forever more about this because
Kyle Shrum: we’re so
Jerred Moon: concerned that we’re going to break people’s brains with rules that.
Is, there are a lot of other supporting studies and there’s another one that called the dirt on clean eating a cross sectional analysis of dietary intake, blah, blah, blah. Talking about how women who want to go clean eating. Some of them end up with [00:27:00] disorders of some sort. and then that’s very unfortunate, but I don’t think that we should just be like, everything is okay.
Every it’s all. Okay. Eat whatever you want. It doesn’t really matter. Just you’re okay. It’s not true. Like it’s not true. And the macros argument doesn’t hold up. And the only way I can, I want to try to prove this to someone is like a one for one competition between two athletes. And you need to be on the crappy macro diet.
So we’re going to be the same macro nutrient wise, but you’re going to eat Twinkies and McDonald’s, I’m going to eat fruits and vegetables and clean meats for a year. Completely standardized for macronutrients at all levels. Let’s just see what happens. Let’s see who performs better and stop talking all this theoretical.
If it fits your macros and all this crap, cause it’s not true. There’s going to be a result [00:28:00] that is negative. and I’m not even speaking scientifically, this is just coming from experience. It doesn’t work. So yeah.
Kyle Shrum: So, and that’s, that’s kind of going the opposite white to the opposite extreme, right. You know, like people can’t handle rules, so let’s just throw out all the rules and it’s like, you’re, you’re going to the opposite extreme.
And that’s, that’s no good either, you know, like, some people can handle rules and, some people can handle different roles or more rules or whatever. For than other people, but you know, we all have, we all have guidelines that we can stick to nutritionally that work for us. And so like just saying, let’s just throw out all the rules cause people can’t handle it.
No, that’s, that’s not, that’s not helping anybody that, so you can stick to it. So whatever you need to stick to stick to it, and then that’ll progress over time as well. But don’t be obsessive and fearful about it.
Joe Courtney: I think when I first made a big change to paleo, cause before. I did paleo. I was just like, kind of eating whatever or the [00:29:00] standard American food pyramid thing.
But when I made the switch to paleo, it was like, I would do one thing at a time. So I, like I got rid of, I think dairy was the first thing I ever got rid of and that’s all I did differently. And then there’s something else I got rid of and that’s all I did differently. I didn’t just jump off the deep end.
But now since I was, I already done that stuff, I don’t really care about that, those things. So I can just snap right into whole 30 and no big deal. So it was just. Budding off as much as you can, as much as you can chew, you know, pun intended, at first, and then going from there,
Jerred Moon: a lot of the problem with all these books on paleo and everything else is they have to, I say, have to, but they wouldn’t make a very good point if they didn’t, they have to come from this fear-based stance to try and make you.
Make a change. So they’re like, they talk about dairy and they talk about how your body can’t process it and how it’s going to ruin your gut and the implications of ruining your gut and all this stuff. Right. And then you’re like, Oh crap. I don’t want to consume dairy is basically killing me. And then now you’re fearful.
Right? And that’s what all these books, [00:30:00] I don’t care what diet you are, vegans do it to meet, you know, paleo people do it to other things like keep carnivores doing it to vegetables. Now they’re, they’re saying there’s too many, like whatever phytonutrients and. Okay.
Joe Courtney: We can go onto the first part. We can just have an entire episode about nutrition.
Jerred Moon: Well, probably just, this is why I don’t talk a lot about nutrition. I try to help people feel for their performance and then I’m out the door. Yeah. It’s
Joe Courtney: also never a simple answer with nutrition. Like you can’t just be like, Hey, here’s here’s quick five points in there. Go do that.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. Yeah. Just everyone does that.
They’re like the carnival people are doing it. They’re they’re trying to scare you. Into thinking that some vegetables are bad and vegans are trying to scare you, that your heart is going to stop. If you, keep eating red meat or that your kidneys are going to shut down, if you have too much protein and in paleo, people were trying to scare you that, what are they trying to do?
They’re trying to scare you that again. Yeah. Grains and dairy are gonna ruin your life and, and kill you. So it’s just, [00:31:00] and none of it’s really true, like. I think in the grand scheme of things we’re talking about, plus, or minus three to five years of your life, following a perfect diet, like you could be vegan your whole life.
Paleo is like, congratulations. Like you made it. You would have died at 87. You made it to 90 with, you know, how, how good are those last three years? Anyway, 87 to 90. Come on. Like. Does it, I don’t know. All right. Moving on, moving on. I don’t even know what’s next cause I’m so sorry. yeah, we’re talking about pacing because this has come up a lot.
and I, I, I try and do my best when, when briefing it, just pacing, given distances and times and rep schemes. I’d like to hear how all of you do it because what happens a lot. Is if I say go hard on this effort. This isn’t true of our more veteran athletes is I think it’s more when someone gets into the program, but they hear hard and they’re like, [00:32:00] okay, as hard as I can go.
but if I, if it’s a five minute effort, hard is going to look different, right? It’s not your a hundred meter sprint pace going out the gate and then just see what happens. so that’s what I wanted to kind of talk about. I have a few strategies I wanted to share. On ways I do it, especially training alone, how I pace myself and things that like personal metrics I look at to try and keep on pace and actually have something to go off on, on pacing.
But I’d love to hear how you guys, pace given different scenarios.
Ashley Hicks: I think for me, what I wrote down was. based on the time given. So, you know, you were talking about Jared a five minute versus like a 32nd, you know, if it’s a 32nd and it’s max up for 30 seconds, then I’m going as fast as I possibly can for 30 seconds, I’m going balls to the wall.
Right. Given it all I can, same thing for 10 seconds, you know, you’re giving it all you can. And even that looks potentially different to, It depends on where you fall off for 30 seconds. I can hold on pretty long though. So, Oh, [00:33:00] that’s, that’s not want to say pretty long. I can hold on for the 30 seconds.
but for example, if I’m going max ever for five minutes, I try to do something that is that I can think of. Okay. So when I did, like, let’s say a time trial for a mile, I know that I can run a mile in eight minutes and 30 seconds was my max right now. So in that case, I take that and I’ve got five minutes.
So that’s about halfway. Right. Well, maybe a little more. So then I take that, I’m like, okay, well I can at least run or row or whatever it is, half a mile. So if I’m going to go max effort for that, then I want to get past that half mile is how I kind of put it in my head and say, okay, this is where I I’d have, something that I can tangibly see, you know, that I’m like, okay, this is what I did at this time.
So that way I can, shoot for. That different time. also, I don’t know if this is a strategy, but it’s when [00:34:00] your, when your bought, when you’re like, there’s no way that I can continue this pace, whatnot. You could probably keep going a little bit more. so I try to make myself, Jared said it for many years.
Uncomfortable as I can, especially for any max out for kind of pacing. no matter if it’s five, 10, 15 minutes, whatever it is. but that’s kind of my way of pacing out.
Joe Courtney: So I think of it, some of that sometimes with these is. No, there’s time to speed up because it just started from a dead stop, time to speed up, hold that pace and then go down.
So shorter intervals, you don’t really have time to speed up. You are speeding up right away. So anything under 90 seconds is usually like, okay, I’m just going to go on this one. And it also depends on how many intervals there are. Most times we’re doing them. It’s a one to one work, rest ratio. If it’s that kind of thing, find a good, I mean it takes, it takes a while to find out what your sustainable cases and what.
You know, something where you’re pushing, you’re like, okay, this is, this is kind of difficult, [00:35:00] but yeah, I know I can do this again after I do my rest periods. If it’s a longer rest period of, you know, a two to one, three to one, then those short, short, short bursts are just, I don’t even look at my watch. I don’t care how fast I’m going.
You’re just going fast. As we get into the later intervals, you know, two, three, five minutes. I usually start off a little bit slower in the first 10, 15 seconds. 2030 seconds. And I slowly build my pace to going what I feel fast as, as I kind of can. And then I see what that pace is and I try and hold until, until the end.
So I’m not starting off balls to the wall because I don’t want to crash as I go. I want to build up to that pace. See what feels good and difficult. Not too difficult, but what feels challenging and then hold that for the remainder of the time, because I know I have a rest period company and same thing happens for the, as you draw it out longer, your speed up period gets drawn out a bit longer.
So we’ll start off super fast. I won’t try to, but I’ll try and hold that for long time, because [00:36:00] then I also think about. I, you know, I do, I might leave some in the tank, but the last, you know, 10% of the workout, 10% of the run, 20% of the run. I know. Okay. If I saw some of the tank, I can go up from here, I would always rather go up at the end than hitting a wall and going, Holy crap.
I just dug myself into a hole. I’m not good. I’m not going anywhere right now. I just completely, 200 out the gate. So that’s how I have approached a lot of mine. And sometimes at first, my, my, my first intervals are usually, yeah, always the slower ones. two weeks done. 60 and 90 minute intervals and my first two have been the slowest, but then I find that groove and they got faster for awhile.
And only like the last one or two might go down a little bit, or it’s just like second to last is down a little bit in the last ones, just fast. so just finding that groove and making sure to not burn out too quick,
Kyle Shrum: I’m always also mindful of what else I have to do in, in that training session. So, you know, when. When the intervals [00:37:00] come up, whether whether they’re 30 seconds, 30 seconds, I mean, you go hard for 30 seconds. That’s just, it doesn’t matter what else is coming, but especially if you have longer intervals, what else do you have to do in, you know, after those are over, make sure that you’re not guessing yourself where.
You know, you finished these intervals, but you’ve still got another block of training to go, and you got nothing left to do that final block. Cause you still want to get that in as well. but I also am mindful of, I will go back and find where it, cause typically we’ve done this and especially I’ve been around long enough that I’ve done pretty much most of it before.
And so I go back to, okay, we did this, You know, about three weeks ago. So what were my splits on it three weeks ago? And I’ll write those down on the board too. So I’m writing down my, my workout on the board, for this time, but I will go back and write down my previous splits the last time I did this.
And so that’s what I’m looking for is I, I need to be better than that. And so, because [00:38:00] obviously, hopefully you’re progressing and you’re getting better and you know, each time you do this and so. I go back and find my intervals, my splits from the last time I did it. And so that’s my benchmark. It’s like, okay, this is where I need to be.
And I need to at least be here, but be better if I can be and shooting to be better, but at least be here so that I’m not regressing.
Jerred Moon: What I, what I’m shooting for. Joe mentioned it doesn’t wanna dig himself into a hole. Early. He also doesn’t want to have something or he he’d prefer to have some gas left in the tank at the end, as opposed to being in the hole.
I just want to be perfectly, I don’t, I’m not in the hole, but I also have no gas left. Like that’s how I’m trying to pace it. And I can’t do that this on every workout, but like Marie, if I figured it out like Murph, I’ve definitely gone way too [00:39:00] hard. And paid for it and like just can barely, barely, you know, handle that last mile.
but then it got to the point where I could finish Murph and there was no like, Oh, he’s yeah, sprint the last a hundred meters. Try hard at the end. And there’s no, there’s nothing left. I can hold the pace for that mile that I want it to hold, you know, whatever, if that’s six 30, like I can hold that pace.
I cannot go any faster. I can’t, I could go slower, but I just definitely can’t go any faster than this fire to sprint. Yeah. I would just die. And so that’s where I’ve trying to get. Most of my pacing is really hard to do. It takes like repeating things over and over again. So go to Ashley’s point. Like if you can come pear when you’re doing mano structural, like time-based three minutes, two minutes, like if you can compare it to like, okay, I know I can run this fast in a mile.
This is half of that time. Right? Maybe should shoot for this amount of meters or maybe it’s the other way around it’s meters. And you’re trying to go to time. I think no known [00:40:00] splits are really good. so I think that’s, that’s one thing that I’m trying to do is just find out what’s the max sustainable and how I do that.
yeah. Is really heart rate. A lot of heart rate based stuff. I’m just looking at my heart rate, constantly workout. And I wanted to give a very tactical approach because. This is something I do, but I’m trying to like formalize it to, so I knew it could help more athletes. Like we just did brain biscuit this week.
And so brain biscuit, the workout for anybody who’s not on the hard to kill tracker. Didn’t participate. It’s 30 minutes for time. You do a hundred kettlebell swings. Rest one minute, a hundred burpees rest, one minute hundred double unders rest one minute. And you go through that as many times as you can in 30 minutes for reps.
And when I see workouts like that, how the, how do you pay something like that? You know, that’s, that’s hard because I’m like, should I just try and go do a hundred kettlebell swings and like light myself up? Should I break it down to tens? [00:41:00] And I used to do that. I used to go in with a plan of like, I’m going to do this many reps.
Rest at these intervals. And, but I don’t do that anymore. Now. I look at my heart rate. My heart rate will determine when I’m allowed to take a break. So like the burpees, I wasn’t like, okay, I’m gonna do 25 burpees in a row. And then rest for 10 seconds. Get back to another 25 burpees. My plan in that workout when, once I got to the burpees was, if my heart rate goes above one 80, I can back off until it gets, it drops 10 beats per minute.
And then I’ve been doing that a lot lately and lately, I mean, probably over the last six to eight months, I’m just looking at my heart rate because your brain will tell you something different. Like my heart rate was like one 65 when I was doing burpees and it was telling me I should probably take a break.
And I was like, you don’t need to take a break. Your heart rate has not hit the threshold in which you said you would take a break. And so I have that plan going in and it’s a lot better because there was even, I it’s [00:42:00] probably just the heat. But I didn’t want to. And, you know, I talked about running out of gas, but, with, with no carbohydrates in my bloodstream or whatever, but I, my heart rate was at one 48 and I didn’t want to do burpees anymore.
I was like, I don’t want to do another burpee, but I just kept doing it. Cause my heart rate was not where I had said. So I think looking at your heart rate, and then if you don’t have a heart rate monitor, another great thing to do, with longer workouts like that is just making little micro deals with yourself.
Like. Like you’ll only stop to rest at intervals of 10 reps or five reps or something like that. Don’t just like ran. Like if you, if you got to 77 reps out of a hundred, don’t do three more and stop at 80 and be like, okay. I, if he, if he did, if he got a 75, take a break and then don’t stop again until 85, kind of have those kind of like principles or like guiding lights in your training, like rules that you hold yourself to having just came off the clean eating, I know rules can cause fear and anxiety.
[00:43:00] But they can also be good. So, set some rules for yourself on these, like, Hey, I always do 10 reps. If I start, I have to do 10 reps on something like this. You can look at your heart rate because the heart rate for me is like a true determining factor. Like I could, my goal is not to try and see how much power I can put out at my heart rate at one 91.
Like I’m not trying to do that. So if I get to like one 80, one 85, I know I’m legitimately operating near max effort and I will also feel it. So I’ll be okay. I’m going to chill out here. so that those are some, approaches I have in, in like workouts that aren’t as work to rest ratio balanced
Joe Courtney: fuel was also a good thing.
You almost, you kind of, kind of scraped, scraped it real quick. but it’s something that I found out in the passive as a longer one, especially Murph, I talked to you guys about it is that. Sometimes halfway through, or when I have like five rounds left in the, on the calisthenics and Murph, I just, it, I get stuck start to get nauseous because I think I just completely run out of fuel.
So you’re getting fuel dial-in, which I think I [00:44:00] need to do. And, if you also need to do it, check out the fuels course. Yup. There it is. fuel can, can also make a difference in how you, how you pace cause of your coming out fast. And you might just burn out quick or you and not have enough left because you ran out.
Jerred Moon: Yeah, like I’m going to have to get real intentional about carbohydrates consumption, pre workout. I mean, I’d probably go back to you can, I don’t know. I used to take that supplement as a carbohydrate supplement. I think it’s funny to supplement carbohydrates, but they’re so easy to get hypo. Maybe I’ll go on the banana tree
Joe Courtney: was like, this is like the best thing to do to just throw in.
Jerred Moon: But I’m scared of carbohydrates. They make me anxious.
Joe Courtney: Yeah, it shouldn’t be
Jerred Moon: okay.
Joe Courtney: I’m not,
Jerred Moon: Ashley, what’s the workout this week.
Ashley Hicks: Heavy load short distance. So for max meters, you will carry two kettlebells in the front [00:45:00] rack position for as long as you possibly can. When you reach your max defense, then you’re going to set them down and you get two minutes of rest. And then you get to repeat this for 20 times.
and then it is for max meters total. So for the entire. 20, 21 grounds that you have. if you don’t have two kettlebells of like the same way that you want to hold, you can do two dumbbells and you can also use a barbell yeah. In the front rack position as
Jerred Moon: well. And just to know, I absolutely loved her phrasing.
She said, you get to repeat this. She didn’t say you have to repeat this. That’s a very optimistic. Yeah,
Joe Courtney: well, I’m honored to be invited to
Jerred Moon: it’s like you, you have the it’s it’s you have a privilege and opportunity to push yourself here. I actually really liked the phrasing of that. It’s not going to change.
Joe Courtney: We’re going to change all of our workouts too. You get to do this.
Jerred Moon: I’m going to start all my athlete briefs with that. And finished with your welcome [00:46:00] here’s the workout you get to do today. Consider yourself lucky. All right. Tips on this one,
Ashley Hicks: brainwashed us all that follow up.
Joe Courtney: So I’m not going to say paste this one. Each Kerry should be pretty hard, but. Okay, I’m going to say the grip is the important thing. And I’m talking about how you hold it because especially if you’re doing kettlebells, have you ever carried kettlebells in the front rack? It’s very uncomfortable and painful and awful.
You can either carry it so that it’s, you lock it into your chest and it’s pinned to your chest. It’s like, okay, I can carry this for a long time. And then you try and breathe after about 15 seconds and you just can’t breathe completely. So then you move it outward. It’s like, Oh, cool. I can breathe again.
But now my arms are gonna fall off. So be prepared to either switch them in between your sets back and forth, whether it’s, you know, I’ll do this first walk on my chest, then this next walk on the outside, or like intro during you start off on the chest and be like, okay, now I need to take a breath. I’m going to move it out, but have some sort of plan, [00:47:00] but either way, make sure you’re also keeping form with this.
Don’t don’t lean back. Don’t arch back. Cause you’re just gonna hurt yourself. So you’re, you’re supposed to, you’re supposed to reach a. Breaking point to carry, and that’s kind of a point max distance, carry not let’s cheat this and get a little bit farther, you know, if that’s your point, that’s your point.
And set it down.
Jerred Moon: My only tip is brace brace, your abdominals intentionally like, you can even wear a belt if you really wanted to. If you’re fearful, It’s not something I would fault anybody for just the fearful is just a big, big, big word word of the day. Yeah. So if you’re, if you’re afraid that your, spine might come out of alignment, you would not brace your abdominals properly wear belt.
but otherwise do try and do those things and it’s going to require more effort. To try and keep your abs tighter. You don’t have to flex in the whole time. Just keep them [00:48:00] engaged, I guess, is the easiest way I can explain it. You don’t want to just let it, whatever happens happens when anything’s in the front rack.
That was a good rule of thumb for anything in the front rack. So do you brace yourself, for, for the carries, with, cannibals in the front rack because it will keep you safer. But other than that, I think, the fact that Joe didn’t say. Pace it, I don’t have anything else to add.
Kyle Shrum: I’d say this. One’s going to be a lot of mindset too.
I kinda think of the arm, my, with this one too, it’s kind of the arm model and a front rack. but just go to that dark place and understand you’re going to be, you’re going to be hurting. It’s kinda like what Jared said earlier. Okay. If I do this, you know, I’m going to hurt, like I’m going to hurt today.
I’ll probably hurt some tomorrow. Like, just accept that and that’s just gonna happen, but get out there and do it also, you can go further than you think, like your brain is going to be telling you, Hey, you need to stop. And then [00:49:00] you need to say, no, I can go further and go further
Jerred Moon: to one of your self-imposed rules of 10 steps or whatever exactly rules are nicely.
Joe Courtney: What tunes.
Jerred Moon: What is the official playlist
Ashley Hicks: for heavy loaded would be my raft jams. So this would probably be, yeah, lots of
Kyle Shrum: heavy
Ashley Hicks: rage against the machine. Like we did last time or Metallica for you, Kyle?
Kyle Shrum: Yeah, the heavier, the heavier, the weight, the heavier, the tunes, man.
Joe Courtney: That’s a good, that’s a good rule.
Kyle Shrum: That’s it?
Ashley Hicks: What would, you would probably listen to NF or some sort of rap? Yeah. Jared.
Jerred Moon: A metronome, no, Mike,
Joe Courtney: she’s going to get those church headphones.
Jerred Moon: That’s my, that’s awful.
Ashley Hicks: So that way you can like pace the walk then too,
Jerred Moon: each step each step is that yeah. We’ll keep me pacing it out very well. If somebody knew that I would probably do. [00:50:00]
rap music of some sort of NF is good. M and M occasionally, something like that. I can’t listen to heavy metal. I just.
Ashley Hicks: I know you said that it’s your loss.
Jerred Moon: I, I I’ve tried. I’ve like, I thought that I was supposed to, it’s like a culture thing, like, people who lift heavy, like they listened to heavy metal and I’m like, I tried it.
I’m like, okay, I’m doing heavy, dead and do heavy metal. And I just felt like my brain was being scrambled. And so I feel the same way with like jazz and jazz and heavy metal. Oh,
Joe Courtney: it’s just to read
Jerred Moon: basically the same.
Kyle Shrum: I don’t listen to jazz for anything.
Joe Courtney: No cafe.
Kyle Shrum: Oh, it’s just mine. I can’t focus. It’s two districts. I would say, I would say though, like, like as far as metal goes, like, there’s, there’s a, like an upper limit for me on the metal.
Jerred Moon: Like there’s like.
Kyle Shrum: Yeah.
[00:51:00] Jerred Moon: It’s like, okay, this is,
Kyle Shrum: yeah, this is, this is not me. Like, I’m not going into like, you know, you’re just growling and, you know, talking about Satan and stuff.
Like, no, that’s not, that’s not my thing.
Jerred Moon: That’s when I see these people. and when I say people, I mean, regular garage, gym athletes, generally not people who follow our programming. Who are doing like smelling salts before they do a heavy deadlift for Instagram, it’s literally only for Instagram and they’re getting the salts going.
I’m like, no, if I have offended, some of someone you’re supposed to save these things for when it really matters, like, like a competition maybe, or fit week. If, if you were going to use smelling salts, but not Tuesday. Yeah. That’s not when you do these things
Joe Courtney: and also easily be edited out in the video, but you know, that’s not simple.
Jerred Moon: Yeah.
Joe Courtney: Yeah. And, you know,
Kyle Shrum: thanks for that, Joe.
Joe Courtney: Yeah. You’re welcome.
Jerred Moon: All right. Well, [00:52:00] if you want a non fear based approach to nutrition, Well, I don’t know if we’re it, so I don’t have anything
Joe Courtney: for you,
Jerred Moon: but if you do want some really good programming, go to dot com and you can support the podcast. Also get some amazing training out of it.
A 14 day free trial, still going on and has been for a long time and will be for awhile. So, if you want to sign up for a free trial, go do that. And it’s a good time because we have the new standards coming up. I’m really excited about being announced in the webinar, not too far from publishing this podcast and you will get to test those and all of our athletes who are already there, you know, in, in the training, thanks for being awesome.
Part of the community. I can’t wait to see how you guys knew on the new standards. I, I’m not going to hate on you. You’re smelling salts. If you’re going to want to do it during a fit week, let’s see a, see some PRS. But other than that, [00:53:00] that’s all I got for this week.
I hope you enjoy. Today’s ask me anything episode two, one more time. If you want to submit a question, topic or idea you can do so at garage dot com slash AMA and Hey, while you’re there, if you haven’t already sign up for garage, gym athlete membership, we are the best community and programming on the internet.
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