Hey, Athletes! Have you ever trained to failure on a movement? Do you think it’ll make you stronger? Listen to the newest episode to hear about how maybe low intensity training can make you just as strong as going to failure!
Episode 27 of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up!
Is Low-Intensity Training the Next Big Thing?
We are back at it this week with four of our coaches and a new study! It’s about the difference of training sub max or low intensity versus training max effort. Then the team talk about what they wish they would’ve known about fitness when they first started this journey. Each coach goes over what they would tell their past self if they could travel back in time. Lastly, the Meet Yourself Saturday workout is “What the Ruck”. The coaches break down the workout and give you some tips on how to tackle this one.
If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast either on Stitcher, iTunes, or Google Play by using the link below:
IN THIS 54-MINUTE EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
- Low Intensity Training
- What I Wish I Would’ve Known About Fitness
- Jerred’s 2 Best Garage Gym Purchases
- New Podcast Setup for 2020
- Updates From The Team
- Max Effort Training
- What The Ruck
- And A LOT MORE!!
If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here are some links for you:
Study of the Week
- Is Performing Repetitions to Failure Less Important Than Volume for Muscle Hypertrophy and Strength?
Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week
Be sure to listen to this week’s episode:
Related Resources at End of Three Fitness:
- SLEEP (and sleep habits)
- Are supplements all in our head?, Knowing the ‘why’ behind your training, and DiCarlo
Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!
To becoming better!
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast. I’m your host Jerred Moon. The Garage Gym Athlete podcast is a result of my desire to build better humans, unequivocal coaches, and autonomous athletes. I’ve spent the last several years obsessing over program design, nutrition in every other way you can optimize human performance.
This podcast instills the latest scientific research with what I’ve learned and blends it with the not-so scientific field of mental toughness. We are here to build you into a dangerously effective athlete. If you enjoy this podcast, you can find out more about our training at garagegymathlete.com and if you want to pursue more into the field of coaching and programming, head to endofthreefitness.com. Thanks for listening.
All [00:01:00] right, ladies and gentlemen, Jerred Moon here, and welcome to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast. We have Ashley Hicks. What’s up Ashley? Hello.
Ashley Hicks: Happy new year.
Jerred Moon: Happy new year. Kyle Shrum. How are you doing, man?
Kyle Shrum: Hey, doing well.
Jerred Moon: We’re in the rep and the black PR shirt. Awesome. That’s in, no one can see this because it’s audio only, but I wanted people to know that’s a, and Joe, how’s it going, man?
It’s me. It’s you. I’m back. You are back. So going over the announcements, the book looks like it’s going to be out in may. Finally pick some dates for that. So exciting. Yeah. So if you want to make sure you’re on the. Got a video coming out. I’m explaining some things about the book was, early chapter releases.
So if you want to be a part of that, go to dot com sign up for that and you will be on that list. That’s about it. We can, yeah. The only other announcement I wanted to hit on is what I hit on last week when I was talking to microphone by myself [00:02:00] was. New podcast next week, like the, the new are really, it’s this week, right?
We start this week, the week this is published. So today’s, there’s going to be four podcasts this week, so don’t freak out when your feed is getting overrun with Garage Gym Athlete stuff. But all the other podcasts are shorter in nature for the most part, except for the athlete interview probably. And, Got a lot of good stuff. does Joe, you got anything on there? No, I don’t think so. Yeah. Just listen to them all or pick and choose. They can choose if they can only listen to one. Which one would you press them to listen to you?
Joe Courtney: Probably the athletes.
Jerred Moon: I would say this one. Oh,
Joe Courtney: I didn’t think this one counted, cause obviously they only listen to this one.
I would just think of the additions.
Jerred Moon: Okay. So yeah, of the addition. I agree with you. All right, let’s get into updates. Joe. How’s life, man?
Joe Courtney: almost back to normal. I actually did the deadlifts this week for the week, one of the programming and they’ll run afterwards and Holy cow, [00:03:00] my hamstring and butt is super sourced still two days after.
So that’s fun, but the Hampshire’s getting better. I mean, it was not a fast, fast mile, but it was like 70% or so, which is fine for a partially torn hamstring, but the devils were, okay, so that’s somewhat encouraging.
Jerred Moon: And what, which track are you on.
Joe Courtney: Hard to queue forward.
Jerred Moon: I want to make everybody say which track they’re on because I think within this group, four of us, we are representing four different tracks.
So is that it for the updates, man? That’s pretty simple.
Joe Courtney: Yeah. There’s not much going on. Yeah. Oh, they were good. We didn’t really do much. Liz had to work. Stayed here in town. Yeah, we have, we almost had like two Christmases because we did one the day before, one of the day after.
Jerred Moon: That’s awesome. All right.
Ashley has life.
Ashley Hicks: Good. I’m in New Mexico and my in laws right now off my in laws. Not in, but, yeah. So training here, train at the Holloman air force base gym. [00:04:00] but a few bodyweight workouts here. My mother-in-law has some dumbbells and, Whatnot. So we’re able to get some things done here. But I’m on shred.
I really wanted to go on harder to kill,
Jerred Moon: but
Ashley Hicks: otherwise it really upset me. But it’s okay. But I. Did the goal sheet actually and prayed about it and shred was the way to go. So if you are on the fence about things and you haven’t set your goals yet, listen to last week’s podcasts and get on my goal sheet.
Joe Courtney: So you prefer body to air force processes.
Ashley Hicks: So
Jerred Moon: the air force,
Ashley Hicks: Kevin must close certain days
Jerred Moon: taking days off lazy military. All right, Kyle, not man.
Kyle Shrum: I do have an update actually. and I didn’t actually have to, I didn’t have to think hard about this one. my wife Hannah is a Garage Gym Athlete now.
[00:05:00] Jerred Moon: Congratulations to Hannah.
Kyle Shrum: Yup. Officially, officially joined up after I’ve been doing this for almost three years. She’s,
Joe Courtney: it just means you have to start trying harder. That’s what I found out was,
Kyle Shrum: yeah, it was actually. Yeah, you’re right.
Jerred Moon: He’s like, I got nothing on that one. Yeah.
Kyle Shrum: Yup. anyway, yeah. She did the women’s health track beta test over the last 12 weeks and really crushed it.
Actually, kinda made me come reconsider. You know
Jerred Moon: how I want to do the one in South track,
Kyle Shrum: not that I want to do the women’s Hill track, but yeah, I think, I think they would still, they would still dominate my numbers if I, even if I did join them himself track. So
Jerred Moon: they’re just a lot of good principles on the women’s health track.
Like, yeah, male or female independent. It’s just a good. There’s a lot of thought that goes into it.
Kyle Shrum: Yeah. So that was really good. So, but she really enjoyed it. And so because of that she decided to just go ahead and join up full time. So, but she is on the shred track. so [00:06:00] shred for the win. I
Jerred Moon: am on a strength track
Kyle Shrum: cause.
I spent too much time away from the strength Trek. It was time for me to get back and now,
Jerred Moon: are you loving it?
Kyle Shrum: Yes. Yes. I do love it.
Jerred Moon: Just in programming it. I know. I’m like, man, there’s just so much strength here. There’s very little conditioning. This, this cycle. There’s like just enough to piss a strength athlete off, but not enough to hurt your gains at all.
So I love that.
Kyle Shrum: Yeah. When I, yeah, when I heard the. You know, when I played the the webinar back and you know, I heard you breaking down, which I knew I was going to go strength anyway. And then I heard you break down the street track and I was like, yeah. Little like limited conditioning and conditioning conditioning with the weights.
I’m conditioning with the weights and it’s not a whole lot of it.
Jerred Moon: Yes,
Kyle Shrum: definitely going that way. Okay. Anyway. Yup. Strengths. Right.
Jerred Moon: Awesome. Well, I’m doing that. Endurance. So that’s where I’m at. I, [00:07:00] I actually, I have the power to change my own track, comes with the territory, so I don’t have to submit a track change in and have Joe do it or anything like that.
But I changed my track, or actually I changed my track like. 30 minutes before my first, before my training session time. That’s how last minute I was on hard to kill. I was like, no, I’m just going to do hard to kill article’s fine. Like that’s what I’m going to do. And then, yeah, it was about 30 minutes and that’s a commitment for me because I don’t.
I don’t hop tracks, like once I start on one, it’s like this is it for three months. This is, and I made that decision 30 minutes for my training session and I was like, all right, I’m doing it. And so that’s where
Ashley Hicks: I’m at. Here’s the question, are you going to do and do your two cycles in a row then?
Jerred Moon: I don’t know that I haven’t decided yet.
So I’ll let you know. I normally do hard to kill a leading up to the race.
Joe Courtney: Yeah. You switch after you do the endurance race.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. I dunno what I’m going to do. Maybe I’ll do four, you know, there’s four [00:08:00] total cycles. Maybe I’ll do NGR twice and hard to kill twice, like, but back to backs.
Joe Courtney: I do plan on trying out some of those Utah workouts.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. They look fun, right?
Joe Courtney: Yeah.
Jerred Moon: On the bike, I’ve already done them. They, they are fun. They are painful, but they’re fun. so other updates for me, I’m ready for Murph to be over. That’s just, and this isn’t even like. It’s just, it is what it is. It’s the workout. I’m kinda done with it. I’m only going to try and give another PR attempt to FIDI beats my current time, cause right now I, I got up to the top spot.
If ed beats me, then I will try hard again. But other than that, I’m just, I’m just rolling. I want it to be, no reason I want to be done is because I want to do other things like. Saturday, I only have time for one workout most of the time due to family, and so I don’t always want to do more if I want to do the meet yourself Saturday workouts that are programmed or you know, ride my bike or something like that, so I’m just getting tired of doing Murph every Saturday.
Nonetheless, keep grinding. [00:09:00] That’s the fun part about it. Then the last update I have, these are the two best garage and purchases I think I’ve ever made, and I wanted to call them out. The first is flooring for my garage gym. That is just the biggest game changer. Like the only reason I bought flooring back in the day was because I had done, I was like, you don’t need flooring.
I’ll just exercise, you know, do concrete, and then you’re doing enough dead lifting on concrete and you’ll find out real fast that your trap neck area is gonna gonna hate you for that. And so I started flooring, but I’ve always had like just pieces. well, no, my last garage did. my last house in Texas had flooring everywhere, but I guess I took it for granted cause I didn’t have to buy any of it.
It’s all given to me. and so I bought flooring for this, my current garage. But every square inch of my garage is now has flooring. And that just makes such a huge difference. Because of the space. Now you feel like you have all of this space, like when you only have like one or two black mats, you feel like, okay, I’m, I am confined to this black mat.
This is where I [00:10:00] exercise. And that’s how I’ve always kind of done it. Now that there’s black flooring throughout my entire garage, it just feels different. It feels more like a gym and you have a lot more space to like move out and stuff. So that’s a huge one if anyone’s like, you know, is it worth it? And I think it is for a lot of reasons.
And the second one, is I bought an electric. Powered battery powered leaf blower for like, for like 50 bucks on Amazon. Yeah. To keep it clean. Cause now I have this a, it doesn’t feel like a garage anymore. It’s only feels like a gym with the flooring everywhere. And I’m like, well, I’ve got to keep it clean in here.
but yeah, it’s hard to sweep in some of these, these areas. So I just blow it out and keep in mind this, this is only job is to clean out my garage because otherwise it kind of sucks. Like, I don’t know if it could actually blow a leaf over grass. But because it’s a, it’s battery powered. but so it’s, you know, there’s no cord, that’s the awesome part about it, but it will perfectly clear out my garage.
So, that is another awesome garage in purchase to help me keep the [00:11:00] garage and clean.
Kyle Shrum: And it takes like two minutes.
Jerred Moon: Yeah, I can do it. I can do it on like a daily basis or like a weekly basis and keep the garage really clean.
Kyle Shrum: You could do it on a rest time during your workout if you want.
Jerred Moon: Yeah, I could even do that if I wanted to get crazy.
But that is, that’s it. I think that’s all the updates I have for me. Oh, I did. this is actually going to be a meet yourself Saturday workout. I did a zone tumor. So keeping your heart rate in zone two the entire time was one of the most mentally challenging things I’ve ever done. because it’s really hard.
You have to go so slow. I, so I had, I started off running. And I can run it like a very slow pace in zone two. I’m a very slow pace though. And then doing the calisthenics, I just, I have to do like slow pull ups and then like rest and then start the pushups real slow and then, squats and then, you know, run the last mile.
And anyway. Try it out. It’s going to be programmed within the next couple of weeks anyway, so do you want to get a headstart [00:12:00] zoned to Murph? Give it a give it a shot.
Ashley Hicks: Zoned to Murph is my normal Merck.
Jerred Moon: It was right around 60 minutes, so
Kyle Shrum: I don’t know if I’ll have two hours to dedicate to Murph.
Jerred Moon: There’s going to be a 60 minute cap and that’s going to be the goal.
So it’s going to be 60 minute cap. The goal being kind of like a conditioned me to the grave. How long is it going to take you? How many months? How many years until you can do this workout and under 60 minutes. It’s the same with Merck, the zone tumor. How long is it gonna take you to be able to do Murphy while in zone two so that’d be fun.
All right. You guys ready to dive in?
Ashley Hicks: Let’s do this. Things do it.
Jerred Moon: All right. This week study, is performing repetitions to failure, less important than volume for muscle hypertrophy and strength. so this was a study done in December, 2019, by Lucas Lazada. Let’s see. So the big, point of this study, just put it in my own terms, is they’re looking to find out, and this goes to strength to their, their [00:13:00] studies on strength, but strengthen hypertrophy.
Can you get the same results from training less than failure? So not, not going to failure every time versus taking it to failure. Every single time, and that’s a big point of a contingent there. There are a lot of different camps. You know, a lot of people think that you should be trained to failure all the time, especially when it comes to hypertrophy.
I know when I was more in the land of hypertrophy back in the day, like that was something that was just like. Pushed on me. Granted, this was over 10 years ago. but still people were like, yeah, you got to train to failure. It doesn’t matter the muscle group or whatever, and that’s how you get your muscles to grow.
And there are a lot of people in that camp and, and now they’re trying to study, do studies to find out, do you really need to work that hard? Is the the answer. That’s what they’re trying to find. Do you need to work that hard to see results? And so what they did, they did a 14 weeks worth of leg extension training and they would have one leg, [00:14:00] which I think this I think is awesome.
They did one leg on one leg, but they didn’t, they train one leg to failure. And the other one they would do to a reserve, so they’d have a rep and reserve basically. So like. And we programmed this all time, or at least in the athlete briefs when I’m like, Hey, you know that people ask me how many reps I should be able to do?
I’m like, well, don’t take it to failure. You know? Probably three reps before that. That’s what a rep and reserve is just like, you kind of know where you like, you know what, I, if I did this many, I wouldn’t be able to do it anymore. So that’s what a rep and reserve is. and I tested everything. Eric kept everything the same percentage of winter at max volumes, reps, all that stuff, the same.
And their overall findings were no significant difference. Now, topic I’ll talk about, I’ll get into why that matters, but I first want to see just what your thoughts and comments are on it. I’ll start with you, Joe.
Joe Courtney: For the, just like the, how they did the study or just the whole thing in
Jerred Moon: general.
Talk about whatever you want. Yeah,
Joe Courtney: it was weird. They used untrained people, so it’d be [00:15:00] fun to use actual trained people. But, I thought at first when I was reading it, that it was like, Oh yeah, this, this will make sense. Because if you’re not taking the failure, then you can do more sets and have more volume.
But they actually made it so that the volume was even.
Jerred Moon: Yeah.
Joe Courtney: So taking out that out of the equation was kind of interesting how it was actually improved, even with the same exact volume and, and a tempo. So it’s not like they were lifting explosively or anything like that either.
Jerred Moon: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a good point.
They actually were forcing him to lift that tempo. I think it was three seconds, a concentric and three seconds East centric, which is anyone who’s done tempo lifting in our programming knows a three second tempo is pretty serious. And so that’s what they are forcing these people to do. But granted it was with leg extensions and yes, on untrained people, which I’m not huge fan of that in general.
Like I don’t know why you would. Want to test anything in the strength and conditioning world on untrained human beings ever. I don’t understand why you’d want to do that. Maybe because they would have the, I mean, there’s no way the people who did the study didn’t know this, but like when [00:16:00] someone’s untrained, you’re going to have the best response.
Right? That’s that honeyMoon phase of, of strength. it’s really, it’s really fun as a coach when you’re programming for someone. and, and they don’t, they’ve never trained before because the first, like. Yeah, I mean, it could be a year really depending on, on what you’re doing, but they think that you’re magical, you know, because you’re, you’re programming these strength progressions and they continue to see results.
It takes, once someone just a little bit trained, then you have to get more intelligent when you’re programming. but actually, what were your thoughts on really anything in general with the study?
Ashley Hicks: I thought it was cool that the strength kind of increased in that, They had to reassess. One rep maxes every couple of weeks where they talked about that.
I think it was weeks three, and then two weeks there after that, they reassessed. So clearly they were, it didn’t really talk about whether it changed or not, but I think it, you know, it did. but
Jerred Moon: yeah,
Ashley Hicks: it was kind of a cool study and the fact that like, Not [00:17:00] going to failure can also bring you as much strength as going to failure.
Jerred Moon: So yeah, and I think that’s the big takeaway here, because when you see kind of the result of the study is, Hey, there’s no significant difference, but you’re like, okay, well, all right, it doesn’t matter. I don’t need to pay attention to the study. I think the opposite is true. There is no significant difference.
That means. You don’t need to try so hard. That’s like, that’s my ultimate takeaway from this study is like, you don’t need to try so hard to be able to see results, which is a really big deal. Kyle, what was your takeaway? Or just anything in general about a study?
Kyle Shrum: Yeah, I think that’s what, I think that’s what I took away from it as well was that you don’t have to Ram your head into the wall to get results.
You know what I mean? You don’t have to. Like you said, try so hard and constantly be going to failure and pushing yourself to that place in order to see results in your training. if you can, if you can do it, and they’re, the right of perceived effort was lower as well, you know, so you kinda, you kind of have that feeling [00:18:00] of.
Well, I was able to do this, but I didn’t have to try as hard to do it. And to me that makes me feel better, you know, to be able to say, Hey, I was able to do this and it didn’t take as much out of me to do it, you know what I mean? And that also kind of leaves some more in the tank for me to go and do, do more in the future and kind of encourage me to keep training as well, so that that lower rate of perceived effort I think is a big factor as well.
Jerred Moon: And the more in the tank that you bring up is a. It’s really important to factor it. And especially if you, if you’re not training, you know, the same lifts multiple times per week, maybe you’re only seeing it once per week, which is what we do in a lot of our programming. That recovery is, is really important.
Cause I know there’s a method within one man, one barbell. It was like that plus method where you would do the Eamomm, or no, the last set of the sh, the working set, and you would do as many reps as you possibly could, but I put all these asterisks in it when I would program that, it’d be like, Hey, like this is like a one [00:19:00] cycle deal.
Like you can do it for one cycle, but that’s it. I used to do those sets a lot. basically taking it to failure. On like squat, deadlift, press. And those were very, very taxing and very hard to recover from. I’m talking about days after, so it could affect other, other training. It was effective. Like I said, there’s no significant difference.
Meaning there was, there was improvements in both areas. so failure training works, but you need to think about your specific situation. Can you train to failure and realistically recover from it cause there’s going to be, that, that to factor in as well. And this is like what we’ve been talking about.
Oh, we, we talk about it in conditioning. We talk about in strength, like we might be one of the only ones saying, don’t try so hard, you know, and to three fitness in general. I mean, that’s kind of one of our coaching methodologies. Like specifically what Kyle said, don’t run your head into the wall. It seems to be true and it’s being proven through science over and over again.
You shouldn’t do it in Metcons. You shouldn’t do it in strength training. You shouldn’t do an aerobic training. Like I don’t see where it’s. I don’t know where it came [00:20:00] from, but it’s, it’s very prevalent in a lot of different fitness industries, is trying as hard as you can. and then it’s a popular, popularized by people like David Goggins, who’s like, you know, posting on Instagram and writing books, saying, you know, work out till you’re nearly dead, and if you’re not doing that, what’s your excuse?
You know, like, and. Why? Why are you that way, man? Like I’m, I get it, like be hardcore, be disciplined. I’m all for it. Let’s wake up early, let’s train. But why do I need to hurt myself when I’m training? What? What benefit is that going to serve me? Because he’s one of those people, like he did that for so long.
His body is so broken down. He has to stretch for four hours a day and he’s on all these different protocols. I think he’s had surgeries and like all this stuff, like you don’t want to go down that route. Like you just don’t. I’ve been watching some documentaries on. Netflix recently too, like, I don’t know if you guys have caught any of them, but there’s a West side versus the world where, and I loved that one just because I’m a huge fan of Louis Simmons, but [00:21:00] all those guys completely destroyed broken surgeries, major injuries, awfulness.
I also watched, What is it, the King Ronnie chronic Coleman. Yeah. I’m not a very good documentary in general, like, and I’m not, I’m not saying like, I disagree with anything. It just, there wasn’t a lot there. Like, I don’t, I watched the whole thing and I don’t really know what they’re trying to tell me.
but anyway, he, one of the best, the greatest bodybuilder of all time, also lifted really heavy, completely broken, like very, very broken. socially, if you watch the documentary, you’ll see, and you know what else. I always say, we haven’t seen the into CrossFit yet. We don’t know what those athletes are gonna look like.
maybe that’d be fine. Maybe they won’t. but it’s same with endurance athletes at the very top, top end. Like these are not the people you should be trying to mimic, like mimicking elite protocols. I’ll just leave you a broken father or broken mother who’s trying to take care of the kids, but also, you know, like.
Broken in the process, you know that you don’t want to do that. So that’s, that’s my soap box for, don’t try so hard.
[00:22:00] Kyle Shrum: Yeah. I, that’s what I was thinking of when I was reading this study was I’ve seen those documentaries as well, the West side one and the, the Ronnie Coleman one and stuff, you know, and it’s like, it just doesn’t, it doesn’t make sense to me.
To train that hard and attain those things, and then later on in life, you are so broken. Your body is so damaged that you can’t function. You know what I mean? Like to me, being the greatest bodybuilder of all time is not worth it. If when I’m in my sixties I have to walk around with two crutches, you know, because like even, you know, it’s just.
It’s just not, it’s not worth it to me. And, but yeah, those are the things that I was thinking of when I was reading this study is these guys who, who do train to failure and think that’s the only way to do it. And yet some of them actually die because of it. You know, it’s like, it’s like, you know, and they talked about, you know, a couple of those guys in the West side.
One, you know, those guys who have passed away, you know, because of those things. And it’s like, to them, those [00:23:00] guys are. You know, heroes, they’re great dudes. And it’s like I have no idea who those guys are. You know what I mean? It’s like,
Jerred Moon: that’s what I think is you didn’t see,
Kyle Shrum: you didn’t achieve what you wanted, you didn’t achieve in mortality.
You know what I mean? Like you, you achieved, you know, lifting some really heavy weights and then dying because you didn’t take care of your body. You know, like what’s, what’s great about that?
Jerred Moon: That’s what’s funny about the West side thing, man, is those guys are working so hard to like be important in the West side culture.
And I’m like. I haven’t heard of any of, you know, my kids will never know your name. You know what I mean? Like just they won’t. And so like, I think you did all that for, for not, any other thoughts? Ashley or Joe?
Joe Courtney: So I, I just made me think of, recently, like some of our newer athletes and literally I think today somebody reached out asking about one of our workouts cause it was, it was a circuit and they were like, it says 90 seconds of rest.
Is that right? That seems like too much. Like, well no, cause you’re actually supposed to be things fast and, and whatnot. [00:24:00] And it’s just a lot of people aren’t used to that sort of methodology and a way to go about things.
Jerred Moon: So yeah. It’s interesting. It’s like we’re, we’re onto something. We’ll just wait till all the science proves us.
Joe Courtney: then sit in the corner,
Kyle Shrum: like told you some 20 years.
Jerred Moon: Yeah, 20 years it’ll be there. all right, let’s go to the topic, I think. I think that’s everything. My takeaway is I actually wrote down, optimal, not maximal. Take wise.
Joe Courtney: It’ll help people, cause if you’re like.
Jerred Moon: And that’s the thing, like if you do have that, like super type a gun.
I mean, I saw was in the military all times a type a guy saw, saw the, in the fighter pilot world, they saw it in the special operations world. You know, they’re just, they’re go getters like they, anything in their life they want to tackle with the highest intensity. They can’t and I get it. But that’s what, you know, a lot of those, those people are drawn towards more CrossFit style, high intensity stuff.
but it’s just not something that you, you need to be [00:25:00] doing. It’s not something that’s going to be good for you later on. So I, I’ve seen a lot of it, and I was that person, like, that’s why I think I initially was drawn to CrossFit because I was like, yeah, let’s just try as hard as we can and then feel dead afterwards.
Sounds amazing. and then I just. Got smarter, you know, over time and looked at the studies. But yeah, I get it. If anybody does want to do that, I get it. All right, so the, the, this topic is, I wish I would have known. So Joe and I, this is a while back. So when it was just Joe and I on the podcast versus first started these new, new style episodes, Joe and I did a, what I, what I wish I knew when I first started, more in the nutrition sense.
So we kind of shared what we, what we wanted to know, or w what we wish we knew about nutrition. And I actually got a lot of great feedback. I just kinda forgot about it. We got a lot of great feedback from that. Episode and people talking about that, in the group and stuff. So I wanted to throw that here.
I’m [00:26:00] doing that again with all four of us. So things that we wish we would known, when we first started, because again, we’re all kind of at different. A journey, journeys or length of time, and how long we’ve been training and what we’ve been doing. And, you know, w this is more in like the health and fitness category.
If you want to go nutrition, you can Joe and I probably won’t because we’ve done it, Kyle, actually, you guys do whatever you, whatever you want, whatever you’ve prepared. but really, if you could go back to the day one version of yourself and have a one hour conversation about health and fitness, what would you tell yourself?
What do you wish you knew? So I’m going to start with Ashley.
Ashley Hicks: yeah. So I wish I could tell my younger self that we were kinda talking about this in the chat. And it was funny cause Kyle threw this up there a little bit. So I wish I would’ve told my younger self that waits were not. Bad. I feel like for females in general, a lot of females say, okay, if I lift, then I’m going [00:27:00] to look like a man or I’m going to lose my, mine was more time on my cardio, my conditioning.
I was very focused on that. And then I also wish I would have told myself that you will continue to learn. Throughout your years because I am a very passionate person as you three know. And I, when I find my niche, my one thing that I love, I w I’m like, that is the only way, or that’s how I used to think.
And so I’m running for five miles or doing, like really, really low weight. High reps was what. No, I thought was the best thing for my body. And I found CrossFit kind of just what you were talking about, Jerred. And I was like, Oh, this is where I need to be. I need to, I need to kill myself for every single workout and then I’m going to, this is definitely going to help me.
And then, you know, I still there, but surely got into, into three verse, cause [00:28:00] you were at Sheppard and Scott was coming to work out with you and then, you know, Also just being friends with you guys and then jumping in fully in 2016 so I, yeah, I wish I would have told myself that weights aren’t bad and you’re going to learn throughout your entire fitness journey.
it’s not one way, one not just one thing. So
Jerred Moon: that’s awesome. I think that that one on the, the female side, like with the females in particular, you’ve mentioned like with the weights not being bad, I run into that all the time. People email me and they’re like, that’d be one of our female athletes.
And she’ll be like, Hey, I really. Want to get stronger. I want to do the strength track, but I don’t want to look like a man, so I’m not going to do the strength track. And I’m like, well, the chances of that happening are very, very small. So like, I remember, I had a friend when I, when I first started exercising, I, you know, I started more in the bodybuilding world.
I had a friend tell me, I was like, [00:29:00] Hey man, do you want to start working out with me? This is something I’m going to start doing. And he’s like, you know what? I think I told you guys a story before, but he’s like, you know what, I would love to, but what’s going to happen is I’m gonna, I’m gonna work out, I’m gonna gain all this muscle mass and get really big, and then one day I’m not going to want to work out anymore.
So then I’ll just, I’ll be kind of fat and I’ll have all this like excess muscle and like, and I’m like. That’s weird. Like that’s one, like I don’t even know if I could gain that much. Like I’m going to try, but I don’t know if I can gain so much muscle, it’s going to be problematic. So one that’s kudos to your mindset and then like, why are you, why is that your concern about maybe quitting one day?
Like that was his ultimate concern is like, yeah, I’m going to do it. I’m going to be really good at it, maybe the best, and then I’m just going to quit. And I’m like. Well, that’s really hard to gain muscle man. So why do you think that you can just do it? It’s the same kind of with the female, like minus the quitting thing as like if you think that you’re going to do one cycle of strength and grow your biceps three inches and you know your quads are going to double in [00:30:00] size, like it’s just not going to happen.
Like the hormones aren’t there. Like it’s just, those things are not going to happen that rapidly. So like one cycle, if you want to be a strength athlete purely for. you know, five to 10 years, maybe, you know, maybe you, you develop a physique you’re not happy with, but that would take a long time to do, you know, and so in, what do we do with balancing?
It’s normally no problem, but I, I run it that all the time. All right, Joe. What do you would have? No,
Joe Courtney: I have a few. so I’ll just start with one quick one that is, take less supplements. Don’t worry about all those supplements. Save them money.
Jerred Moon: Take a lot of supplements when you first started.
Joe Courtney: I mean, I did everything with what normal people do.
You know, you get the pre-workout and then you get some sort of recovery drink and then those till packs and just all this, all the dumb stuff like, and you, you just see what, especially being in the military, everybody has these annual, when you’re deployed, everybody. It’s their big box of, from bodybuilding.com.
You’re like, Oh, sweet. What also stuff that I get this time. And you think it’s just going to be magical and thank you so much [00:31:00] better, but don’t just save that
Jerred Moon: money. He doesn’t need it. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Courtney: so just a quick one, but. I would say a really big one is don’t take advice from some guy, you know, or what a magazine tells you.
I guess was back then would’ve been magazines, but now it’s the Instagram models. so don’t do that. Just actually tried to do some research and learn on your own, which I kinda didn’t do. There was one or two guys that I actually trusted and, knew some good stuff, but it was still their word and what worked for them versus me.
So I guess would say to explain it, expand more knowledge.
Jerred Moon: Yeah, for sure. That’s, I mean, that’s really hard in the gym setting, like that’s the only place, because we’ve all had the internet for a majority of our, our lives, but still things, things have evolved a little bit differently, I would say over the years.
So my go-to. When I, when I first started fitness was not Google it, it was asked questions to people who’d already done it. And so that you kinda had to rely on those people. And so you got this N equals one, like, yeah, I, [00:32:00] I got really big by doing this. And so you should do that same thing, you know, like, okay, that’s what I’ll do.
And then you, it, it perpetuates the bro science cycle because you’ll probably see some results, maybe not the same. You’ll have to modify things for your situation. And now you have all this knowledge. When someone asks you a question and that this is how it got, you know, pre-internet, how it got passed down over the generations would like, yeah, you need to train every set to failure.
You know, like that’s, this is where these things come from. Because Ronnie Coleman did it and he told other people to do it in a magazine. Now, like a million bodybuilders say you should do it. And so it’s hard to push back against that information, but that, that one’s huge. And as you mentioned, the Instagram models.
Joe Courtney: just don’t follow them. We follow them if you want to look at them, but it’s,
Jerred Moon: that’s
Kyle Shrum: AR kind of dreamy though.
Jerred Moon: Know some don’t take their advice. All right. Is that it?
Joe Courtney: Oh no, I was just going to look
Jerred Moon: like you’re just getting worn it up.
Joe Courtney: try to aim your training toward performance, not aesthetics, other, there’s [00:33:00] some things with aesthetics, but not, not completely.
So just try to go to performance and aesthetics would kind of come.
Ashley Hicks: That’s
Jerred Moon: a good one.
Joe Courtney: I was gonna put down, stay away from machines, but I was somehow fortunate and wise enough to stay away from machines. And all I did was Dumbo work for like the first year or working out. so it was accidentally good.
But for anybody else, you know, stay away from machines and maybe pick up a barbell.
Jerred Moon: Love it. yeah.
Kyle Shrum: Well, I just had to Mark off like half my list.
Jerred Moon: I’m going to
Joe Courtney: say I was going to give you guys an opportunity, but you know, I just, I just got it.
Kyle Shrum: I thought I would get to go next since Joe’s already done it before, but no.
All right. I’ll just do this on the fly.
Jerred Moon: I. I
Kyle Shrum: kind of agree with the same, the same thing that he said, like the whole body part isolation thing, like chest on one day and back on one day and only have, who only has one leg day a week. That’s nuts to me.
Joe Courtney: He didn’t say that. Squat more.
[00:34:00] Kyle Shrum: Yeah. Yeah. have multiple leg days a week.
focus on nutrition. Exercise is more dependent on nutrition than the other way around. And so make sure that you don’t, you know, fudge on your nutrition. Make sure nutrition is really dialed in.
Jerred Moon: also,
Kyle Shrum: I didn’t know if I should go back to my first day of Garage Gym Athlete, or if I should go back to, like when I first started exercising, a long time ago, like seventh grade football.
So I kind of went back and forth, like would I go back and have a conversation with seventh grade me or me from three years ago? And so I just went with me from three years ago, cause I think, I think seventh grade maybe that would be a completely different conversation.
Jerred Moon: Just think about actually having the conversation.
Yes. And I did that.
Kyle Shrum: Yeah. I played that out in my head both ways and I was like, I don’t want to sit down with seventh grade me. So anyway.
Jerred Moon: Yeah.
Kyle Shrum: Yeah. I think the first thing [00:35:00] I would say is if I’m sitting across from me from three years ago, is follow the program because you look like this in three years.
So there you go. Look a lot better. You do accomplish, you don’t just accomplish the goals that you have right now. You crush them, and so stick with it. and I think the biggest thing I would say. To myself from three years ago is, Oh, by the way, it’s been almost three years since I’ve been at garage mathlete, which is pretty cool.
Jerred Moon: Congratulate.
Kyle Shrum: I would say you are capable of much more than you think you are. And cause that was a big thing for me was the whole mindset. That was a, that was a big deal for me starting out was really just getting the mind right. to actually go in and do the work. the work wasn’t actually, and I found this out over
Jerred Moon: time,
Kyle Shrum: that the work wasn’t actually.
Too difficult for me to do. It was just me having the right mindset of getting in there and doing it. And so I think that’s the biggest thing that I would say to myself back then [00:36:00] is, you are capable of a lot more than you think you are right now. I don’t think I would spoil for myself all the things that I’ve done that I didn’t think I would do.
because I think I would like to just kind of have that experience so I wouldn’t, you know, tell myself, Hey, you, you know. Survived the worst Spartan race of all time. you know, or, you know, all of this other cool stuff that I’ve done since being a Garage Gym Athlete. I wouldn’t spoil that, but I would just make sure.
That I told myself, you’re capable of a lot more than you think you are, so just stick with it and you’re going to do some really cool stuff. and then the last thing I would say is certain things don’t suck less over time, like burpees. So just do them like suck it up and do them. They’re not gonna get any better.
Certain things will get easier, certain things will get better, but certain things just suck. And so just do it. That’s
Jerred Moon: awesome. Well, I think those are some great takeaways now cause it’s my turn,
Joe Courtney: let’s just say.
[00:37:00] Jerred Moon: So I would, I would have to interject. So this wouldn’t be the me starting out day one. cause we are getting closer to that seventh grade version of me.
and so when I would kind of, when I officially flipped to more performance based training, which is about. I dunno, 10 to 12 years ago, something like that. I kinda stopped doing cause I was like hardcore just bodybuilding type stuff. Right. I’m actually really glad I started there. I’m, I wouldn’t change that at all.
I probably wouldn’t, I maybe would’ve had some nutrition recommendations for the very day one version of me. but we’ve already kind of gone over there over those, when Joe and I did a podcast. But that’s probably all I would change there now interjecting when I got into more performance based stuff.
so I was really big into Westside barbell. and something that Louie Simmons talks about all the time as a pyramid is only as tall as its base. And what he’s normally referencing there is your general physical preparedness. Though the more GPP you [00:38:00] have, the stronger you can get. So the, the more prepared you are to take on training, the more strength that you can gain.
And so a lot of people think, you know, only gain strength. you know, but you. You’ll, you’ll plateau really fast if you’re not, you know, pretty well conditioned. I’ve known that. But what I wish I would’ve known was the same applies for aerobic endurance. I neglected aerobic endurance in a very serious way for a very long time.
And, that has been detriment, like my aerobic fitness compared to where that compared to strength. They’re just ridiculously, if we’re comparing like. Objective measures of like where my VO two max should be, or how fast my, you know, five K times should be like, all these different things. It could be significantly greater.
so I would’ve told myself, I would’ve given myself the same pyramid example, like the greater your aerobic endurance base, the more intense you could be, or the more, the more work you can put. [00:39:00] Out without actually having to go to those different intensity levels. So being able to finish, let’s give a CrossFit example.
Like when I did CrossFit, I could do Fran and under three minutes, but I would be dead. I mean, I’m like just absolutely dead for maybe 30 minutes after. And so I had like the mental capacity, but I’m all also unders. If I had a gigantic aerobic engine before I started. I could probably still do the same sub three minute Fran time and recover in about two to three minutes, you know, maybe five minutes and be like, you know what?
I’m fine, let’s, let’s get going. Cause my body just works better. So I wish I would’ve gone in. I’m hardcore on knowing that, Hey, you can put out more work, at lower intensities. you can recover faster. And I would tell myself it will not crush your gains. The like. People think that this is so conflicting, the aerobic and strength are aerobic in [00:40:00] and gaining muscle, but it’s only at the extremes that that’s, that’s true.
So yes, if you want to do a marathon, training program where you’re running several hours per week and then also a hypertrophy muscle gain or strength program, yeah, it’s probably not gonna work, but we where that then the misnomer and what I had for a long time is like, well, what if I want to do an hour.
Of aerobic conditioning three or four days a week and then still do strength training. It’s like, yeah, that’s actually going to be fine. It’s not going to crush your gains at all. You know? And in fact, it might may only improve them, but I took the opposite approach. I’m like, I’m trying to get stronger.
Aerobic conditioning is my enemy and so I will not do it. And so I really wish I would have made that mistake. And the reason I think it’s such a big deal is because there is no cheating biology. I cannot increase my aerobic endurance over one 12 week cycle or one year. It’s going to take the level of aerobic conditioning I want is going to take probably five to seven years to get to the level I want to be [00:41:00] of just continuous work in that zone.
And so, I’m really far behind where I want to be. And so that’s where I would have introduced projected. and then what kind of goes with that? This is almost like my second thing would be understand fuels. So we had that fuels course. that’s, you know, we, we do a couple of times per year. I wish I would’ve had a much greater understanding of that.
like 10 years ago. I really do. I wish I would’ve known that when you’re going really high intensity, you’re basically only burning sugar and burning no fat at all, like zero fat. And if you want to burn fat, that’s problematic. Right? And, I wish I would’ve known that not just for myself, but in coaching people.
you know, our programming’s changed a lot over time, but that’s the, going back to the whole CrossFit thing, let’s just take another shot across it because I love doing that, right? That, that’s the issue. Like if you, if you want to burn fat doing CrossFit, you’re not going to do it. You’re, you’re training such high intensity, you’re burning sugar.
And the only reason people lose weight or whatever is because they are increasing their GPP. So their [00:42:00] metabolic rate is getting a little bit better, but they’re going to cap out real fast. So they’re getting, they’re becoming a fit or human being. So their lean tissue can burn more calories, but they’re going to stop burning fat at some point because their GPP is going to level off.
And then after GPP has leveled off, all they’re going to do every time they train is burns sugar. Which is eaten every day. So they’re basically, they’re stopping what could get worse. They’re not undoing what’s already been done. So if you have a lot of fat to lose, keep that in mind. Do you need to be training?
Very low level intensity aerobic training and that’ll burn fat anyway. I don’t want to get into all the fuels and energy systems cause that would take, I mean we have an entire four week course on it, like it takes a long time to learn all that stuff. but I wish I would have understood the fuels very early on because me understanding the fuels to the level I do now is like.
This is like easy tic TAC toe level connect the dots, stuff that other people don’t understand because they don’t understand that, understand it. But now that I do, I’m like, I feel like I can see through the matrix with like, Oh yeah, that totally makes sense on why you should and shouldn’t do things. But until you have that level of understanding, you understand.
So [00:43:00] fuels and aerobic endurance, our mind. Questions. Comments? All right. And I got a shot at CrossFit multiple.
All right, well, cause you see
Joe Courtney: bodybuilding. And
Jerred Moon: did you see someone in the group posted? power lifting, power lifting. I, I need to
Kyle Shrum: know where I did.
Jerred Moon: Yeah.
Kyle Shrum: But the West side stuff.
Jerred Moon: All right, so email ready? No, I think I’m getting much less pushback, to be honest. Now, I think people were like, Oh, you know what?
He has a, he has an okay point. Even the CrossFit, like he would love CrossFit or like, Whoa. It makes sense, but I don’t know if I agree with you like, but it’s a logical argument. I’m
Joe Courtney: like, well, I think nowadays people aren’t enough CrossFit for, for fun, for challenge, and for to work out with people. Just like to suffer together.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. There, there is a time and place for that. I’m not saying never try train high intensity. We knew that it’s just you shouldn’t do it every day. You do it [00:44:00] every day. I’m not even worried about you getting injured. That’s, people were like, yeah, show me the study on like where you’re going to get injured doing.
I’m like. You don’t even know. I’m talking about fuels here and burning fat in like mitochondria and you’re talking about a snatch, like we’re not even having the same conversation. Okay, let’s see what happens. See what happens. I blame you guys. Okay? That’s it on that. So we’re going to talk about what the RUC is, our workout.
Who’s done it? Has everyone done it? I’ve done it multiple times. I love it. All right, Kyle, this is on your, on your list, man. You’ve got to get it done. All right, so you do a three mile ruck. the weight is for competitors. So I’m going to give male, female competitors 55 35 established, 35, 25 recruit is 25 15.
So those are the weights that should be in your pack and the actual workout. So three mile rough, but there is a buy-in. So the buyin is 60 pull-ups. Kipping allowed, you are allowed to [00:45:00] get, but you don’t have to. It’s up to you. 70 hand release, pushups, 80 squats, 90 setups, 100 burpees. This is, there is no, You’re not wearing the RUC. Yeah, you can’t partition rule number one and you’re not wearing the ruck. Cause I know I’ll get that question. Like are we doing that with a ruck on? No. So you do the buy in before you put the ruck on and there is no partitioning needs. You have to do all the pull-ups before you move to the pushups, all the pushups before you move into the squat, so on and so forth.
And so that is what the ruck and. I love this workout. I really do. What don’t you like about it? Actually, so
Ashley Hicks: if you gave me the buyin and said this was the workout, I have, love it. I love the buy it. Then I think it’s because I went in thinking, Oh man, this would be awesome. And then I put the ruck on, which by the way was a backpack and just put some weights in there, being some friends.
And I took off first mile fine, but then from then on I would have to like [00:46:00] run a hundred. Walk a hundred, run a hundred. I could not run for the entire three miles. I think that really got to me. So then in turn, I hated this workout.
Jerred Moon: It, it is. it’s it messes with your mind, especially at that higher ones.
the very first time I did it was, was very challenging. I remember, cause you’re gonna finish, you’re gonna do 60, 70, 80, 90. You’ll finish the sit ups. The sit ups kind of take awhile. And then you have to do a hundred burpees. That takes some time. Like that takes a quite awhile for most people to do a hundred burpees.
And so you’re feeling good up. You’re like, you knock out the pullups, you do the pushups, squats your steps. You’re like, that was kinda long, but I’m done. And then when you finish the burpees, you’re kind of destroyed. It took you a lot longer than you thought, and then you’re like, Oh crap. Now I’ve got to throw on a backpack, a heavy one, and ruck for three miles.
And so that’s where it gets you. And I remember the first time I ever did this and programmed, it was several years ago with a, my occasional workout partner, Ben, and [00:47:00] he just, he just lost it like mentally. And he admitted it. He was like, I just, I couldn’t, he went out on the ruck, but a bunch of funny things happened to him.
He like. He got really mad at the burpees, did them anyway, and then put on his ruck something failed with his GPS and he like got lost, you know, and so like he, I was like, I didn’t even know I couldn’t go find him cause like I didn’t know which direction he went or anything. So I’m sitting in my house, like having completed the workout, like 40 minutes pass.
I’m like, I’m getting pretty worried. Like I, I need to go find him. And, It sounds familiar. He, he came back and I don’t know, I think he had, he had ruck like six miles or something. I don’t know. And, it was just a bad, bad day for him, but it was bad for me that day too, because I didn’t, there’s no resting in the ruck.
that’s, that’s not written anywhere, but that’s my suggestion. Don’t like set the weight down or take it off or anything. And so I would rest, I would bend over and let the. The way of the ruck like rest on top of my back. [00:48:00] But anyway, I don’t have any tips for you. go fast. Go fast. Go actually don’t go fast.
Pace the whole thing. That’s my actual, if you want to do anything fast and do the buy in fast, but the ruck should be paced. It sounds like you didn’t paste the Rook Ashley in that, that bit you so.
Ashley Hicks: Yeah, I didn’t go like hard cause trust me coming out from a hundred burpees. But yeah, I ran the first mile and I don’t know.
But I would say just keep moving like in the three miles. That would be my suggestion. Like even if you’re walking, walk with that rock on, do not stop because once you stop to me that it makes it harder for me to keep going. So it’s just like keep, you know, slow walk. If you need to do a yard, just do a jog.
And then, yeah, for the buy-in, just, you know, don’t burn yourself out completely. So,
Kyle Shrum: yeah, I’m the exact opposite of Ashley. Actually. The buy end sounds horrible to me, but the [00:49:00] ruck sounds really fun. Like I really like burdened carries. I don’t know, I just like it. You know, I shared this, my favorite part of the Spartan races is the buckets, you know, in the same bags and all that.
The Atlas stones and all that. I like, I like the iron mile, like I’m just, I’m one of those weird guys. I like the
Jerred Moon: height.
Kyle Shrum: I like it, but yeah, so actually on Saturday you do the buyin and it just hit me on Slack and I’ll go to the rug and then we’re good to go.
Jerred Moon: I’m on the ready. Joe, you have anything? I think you said pace.
Joe Courtney: Yeah. Pace. I’m all about pacing, so
Jerred Moon: I don’t know if like any, I don’t even know if we should even like give advice anymore. Joe says pace. I say go faster. Well actually normally keeps being at least, so
Joe Courtney: maybe sometimes I have small snippets of why’s. Why isn’t this? But.
Jerred Moon: Smell. Why isn’t it? Why isn’t this
Kyle Shrum: also known as wisdom?
Jerred Moon: There you go. [00:50:00] Which is an actual word.
Joe Courtney: No, I don’t believe you.
Jerred Moon: Hey, wait. This is the garage of Malbec podcast. We can make up any words you want. Yeah. Speaking of making things up, you guys all need to make up a reason why people should join Garage Gym Athlete. I’m going to
Joe Courtney: stay you guys. We’re publishing for more podcasts all the time, even though you get to
Jerred Moon: know, you jumped in first.
Okay, so Joe is going, we publish more episodes. Okay. You actually have to
Joe Courtney: have your chance to be on the podcast.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. That’s not something I don’t think anyone else is doing. And if they are, they’re definitely copying us. Ashley,
Ashley Hicks: cause our training allows you to live for longer and become a optimal, better human.
Jerred Moon: There it is. Now, can you even. Kyle, I don’t know what you’re going to follow up.
Kyle Shrum: We give you really cold shirts like this one that I’m wearing that you can’t see right now.
Jerred Moon: The PR shirt, red shirt, and then there’s working out and being
Kyle Shrum: awesome.
Jerred Moon: There is killing
Kyle Shrum: comfort patches. Well,
Jerred Moon: that’s going to be mine.
the killing comfort patch. [00:51:00] Is, if anyone listened to my goal setting podcast last week, then you know, that’s all I’m trying to do. I’m trying to get for killing comfort patches this year. That’s my only goal, which means I have to actually, it’s not like, Oh, do the word. I have to fill out the app. I’m holding myself to that.
The actual killing comfort. You’ve got to fill out the app. You got to get the green dots for a full year. It’s gonna be very challenging. cause I’m not the best at filling up the app. and I gotta do. the recovery game, which is kind of an announcement at the end of the recovery game, is switching to EO three elements, in the near future, which is, it’s kind of the same thing, but just the name’s gonna change.
So that’s it. until next week, enjoy the rest of the podcast this week. Let us know what you think. give us some feedback in the Facebook group or, you can leave us a five star review and a positive comment and let us know what you think about all of the new content there as well. That’s it for this one.
Thanks for listening to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast. Do you want to learn more? Go to garagegymathlete.com. You can learn about our training. Let us send you a copy of our book, The Garage Gym Athlete, or you can even get featured on the Garage Gym Athlete podcast.
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