Hey, Athletes! Want to learn more about strength training and how it can improve hypertrophy? Then listen to this week’s episode of the Garage Gym Athlete Podcast!
Episode 86 of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up!
How Strength Training Improves Hypertrophy
In this week’s episode of the Garage Gym Athlete podcast we have our fabulous four yet again. After they give us their updates and announcements they then go over this week’s study. The study is on strength training and how it can help improve hypertrophy. This week’s topic is the best advice the coaches have received. Each coach goes over what they think the best advice they have gotten is and why. Finally, this week’s Meet Yourself Saturday Workout is Sally’s Revenge! It’ll make you not like anyone named Sally for a while 😉
If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast either on Stitcher, iTunes, or Google Play by using the link below:
IN THIS 59-MINUTE EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
- Bean Water
- Strength Training
- Best Advice You’ve Received
- Hypertrophy
- Sally’s Revenge
- Tips For MYS
- Updates and Announcements
- And A LOT MORE!!
Diving Deeper
If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here are some links for you:
Study of the Week
Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week
Be sure to listen to this week’s episode:
Related Resources at End of Three Fitness:
- Our BEST Advice on Becoming a Better Human
- Training to Live Longer (while being a badass), Fitness Pacing, and Sally’s Revenge
—
Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!
To becoming better!
Jerred
Transcript:
Jerred Moon
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage, gym athlete podcast. Everyone’s here. Most everyone. Welcome, everyone.
Joe Courtney
Every podcast one.
Jerred Moon
Alright, we’re just gonna get right to it. updates. Lots of stuff going on in the world. Ashley how’s life? Oh, whoa,
Ashley Hicks
that fast. Okay, yeah, life is good. Um,
Kyle Shrum
we’re not doing the breakdown first.
Jerred Moon
Like No, we gotta get I’m gonna just make that all part of me all part of like when when it’s my turn. I’m just gonna go because I’m gonna do shoutouts then as well.
Kyle Shrum
I gotcha. All right, sorry, Ashley.
Ashley Hicks
Yikes, I was put on the spot anyways, now I’ve recovered we’re good. Ah, life is good. I am still on my two days of strength. Three Days of Yoga.
Joe Courtney
But I also by name out there
Jerred Moon
is that yoga Joe program for you.
Joe Courtney
So Joe videos kind of laying around with like occasional stretching. I just kind of, I just kind of bend over touch my toes and then call it good.
So we have a bandana on?
Joe Courtney
Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
Ashley Hicks
I i thought i was i was like putting joke and yoga together joke, but it’s okay. Um,
Joe Courtney
yeah, same, same, same same yoga,
Ashley Hicks
but our Yoga is no joke. Haha. Anyways, it really isn’t it. I’m still sore from it. But I can do two days of power or like a fast flow yoga. And then I do have to have one day of restorative yoga. And I haven’t done that yet. So we’ll see. I’m actually supposed to do that this afternoon. So we’ll see how that goes. And I bet it’s like more mindfulness more like meditation. I’ve never really done it. So we’ll see. Um, oh, and just solo parenting apps for two weeks. So yeah, Scott’s gone to Luke to fly. The Jets here. I’ve been having some issues and weather stuff. And so the guys really aren’t flying as much as they need to. So they’re kind of farming them out everywhere. Like, hey, you want to go to Vermont fly, hey, you want to go to Vegas and fly, want to go to Utah and fly. And Phoenix is another f 35 base, also a training base. So he’s gonna be out there for two weeks and I think he gets to fly every day. So he’s pretty happy. And awesome.
Joe Courtney
Isn’t Florida like the only state not having crappy weather when
Ashley Hicks
it’s raining? It’s not snowing. But also if there’s like cloud cover or fog, they can’t fly with like, ceiling limitations like how low the clouds are. Also, lightning I always laugh You know the whole US Air Force song It’s like nothing could stop the US Air Force and I’m always like, but lightning within five always stops you
Jerred Moon
in NyQuil
Ashley Hicks
anyways so yep, that’s me okay um Joe Your turn
Joe Courtney
Oh huh I don’t have much with training cuz I’m still only going to the gym once a week yeah
Jerred Moon
you’re boycotting fitness because they’re making wear mask manual boycotting
Joe Courtney
I don’t like my mask
Jerred Moon
you’re only hurting yourself now weirdest protest. No,
Joe Courtney
I just I’m still getting getting some things in you know I still have this will get most of the workouts in and I’ll do my heavy days my barbell days there so I still go once a week and get that get that stuff in. So this past week I or this this week, I went and did most of the barbell stuff and things that are easier to do with equipment for D load week and then I most of the other stuff I can kind of do here with bands or vests or whatever else I got rings and then running through an earache too, so you know just do my thing. I’m just gonna throw out some food stuff because I don’t really there’s training is just training right now and it’s obviously it’s not doing what I’m supposed to Gordon some what food so I mentioned weeks ago that I got Liz some baking books. How can this be gluten free? So she’s been you know, we’ve just been bored being at home so she’s been baking a ton. And she accidentally accidentally made some muffins that produce zero crumbs and I thought those were awesome because they’re very spongy. So that was pretty nice there It tastes really good. It’s really random what I know. You think it’s a weird thing but you know wherever he muffins he crumbs everywhere, but these don’t produce any. They’re just a happy accident with baking. It’s just weird. Anyway, that’s
Ashley Hicks
one of the best updates you’ve given in a while.
Joe Courtney
Yeah. And then I also thought yeah, I don’t know. And then what I made over the weekend, so I’m just gonna throw in some of the stuff that I’m making too because of ideas for other people want to do is I took some of the bone broth that I make from home and because we’re doing macros and just because of nutrition wise to anyway, I made a Yeah, you know, slay flex as well.
Kyle Shrum
He’s using though.
Joe Courtney
smoothie. Yeah. A I made a like I’m just I just called it a carb soup because we usually we make like a base and then you just put whatever protein you want in it. So I cooked sweet potato and a can of pumpkin and some basil from our garden and some garlic in my bone broth. And then I pureed it. And now I just use that as my base for food and just throw some vegetables and some meat in it. Good to go.
Ashley Hicks
Pumpkin, huh? Hashtag basic.
Joe Courtney
No, no, it’s not pumpkin spice. Get out of here. All right, just no. Stop pumpkin spice to actual pumpkin. Pumpkin. It took us two months to find even that here.
Kyle Shrum
I was gonna ask where you found pumpkin.
Jerred Moon
I was gonna ask how you garden. But I forgot the weather’s mild currently.
Joe Courtney
Right now you got like a month, right? Yeah. It’s actually kind of funny because we go on walks. And there’s a ginormous bush of basil. So we just walk along and we were going over to a friend’s and we’re just like, hey, they want some basil. Cool. We’re just gonna pick this route out of the ground. This whole long thing of basil. And we’re just gonna take it over because it’s our neighborhood basil bush.
Jerred Moon
So you don’t have a garden. You’re just stealing from somebody. You know, we
Joe Courtney
actually have a we have basil in our backyard. Okay, God, I did steal that. No, it’s community. They’re fine. We have
Jerred Moon
something like that here. I think we have like basil and rosemary. A couple other things that get picked and thrown into food around here.
Joe Courtney
Yeah, that’s great. That’s what I got. So Kyle,
Kyle Shrum
so I got some I got some some crap for my coffee making abilities. So I picked myself up a French press. I’m French press in my coffee now. So I’m no longer abusing my coffee grounds.
Joe Courtney
Every day’s press day.
Jerred Moon
How is it? I mean, what do you think?
Kyle Shrum
I mean, I really like it. I mean, it’s still it’s still really good.
Jerred Moon
Is it better than Keurig?
Kyle Shrum
I think so. there’s not as much stuff hunter bottom.
Ashley Hicks
Yeah. It’s a little more potent.
Kyle Shrum
Definitely stronger. You
Joe Courtney
let it plume?
Jerred Moon
Correct to me is like, like, I don’t know what that means. A coffee like a tea flavored coffee. It’s like a tea that has coffee flavor.
Ashley Hicks
It’s water flavored. No coffee flavored water.
There you go.
Jerred Moon
There you go. That works, too. I got you. I don’t mean to trigger anyone.
Ashley Hicks
We just offended somebody.
Kyle Shrum
bunch of people. If Hannah Arendt which Hannah doesn’t listen to this, because she doesn’t want to hear me Tori. Yeah, she uses a query all the time. And she does like two to three vessels a day. So that’s like one cup of coffee.
Joe Courtney
Like, like, we’re talking each cup is a vessel or like, she fills up a vessel with a couple of those.
Kyle Shrum
It’s like a full coffee mug of coffee. Okay, well, that’s
Jerred Moon
cool. As a kid, I can make a cup of coffee.
Kyle Shrum
They can make a full cup. There’s three settings on it like you can, like you can do a little bit or a medium amount or filling up
Joe Courtney
or just
Ashley Hicks
yeah, somewhat watery, medium watery and super watery.
Joe Courtney
Especially not a sponsor for Keurig.
Jerred Moon
No, I’m like hating on it. Ever,
Kyle Shrum
even though like upgraded a lot of airtime a
Joe Courtney
lot of airtime?
Jerred Moon
Yeah. million dollar minute here.
Kyle Shrum
That’s, uh, that’s all I got. Jared, go for it.
Jerred Moon
Okay, I’ll get into the start of the show. Like I should have done in the beginning, but I want to skip it to to move things around and not be so you know, regimented. But the the story, the story, the science that we cover today is does strength before hypertrophy mean or more muscle mass. And the topic is best advice that we have ever received in a fitness capacity, and then the workout is Sally’s revenge. And we’re gonna continue on with our garage gym athlete shout outs. Shout out to David Chambliss. He’s doing the Murph project right now. So you know, once a week, but he also has coming up the army division Best Warrior Competition at the end of February. So that one’s right around the corner when this publishes. We’ll be right at the end of February. So David, I hope you crush it. Man. You’ve been a part of the community for a long time and I hope that you you do well. So there’s the shout out to David doing awesome stuff.
Nice.
Jerred Moon
Yeah, I don’t I looked it up. I I’m not 100% sure what the Best Warrior Competition is. But if I haven’t pulled up correctly, they complete an army combat fitness test a 12 mile foot March and rifle qualification and some other stuff. So sounds cool. Cool. Sounds like a good like mix of events. Yeah, thanks. All right, my updates. Snow broke Texas. And I live in Texas. So I’ve been experiencing that. It’s been pretty crazy. got down to negative four here. And that’s the coldest I’ve ever been in in the state of Texas. And I did. This is for all my northern friends who don’t understand things. They’re like, Oh, it snowed and you’re such a baby. It’s like, No, dude. Like, there’s no infrastructure in Texas for negative four degrees. And so we don’t have salt trucks. Our plumbing is not set up for it. So I literally have friends whose houses are flooded right now. We have massive car accidents. Lots of people die like it’s a very tragic event. So it’s not really like this. Oh, you guys can handle some some cold. Like it’s it’s it’s pretty big deal. And it has been a big deal. We’ve had a lot of people friends family affected by it. And it’s still going on right now. Luckily, like we had to move this podcast because they’re doing rolling out power outages and stuff. And I wasn’t going to be able to record so we moved it. Luckily, everything is good now. But man, it has been crazy. We’ve been pretty fortunate overall, but it has been crazy in the in my area of Texas. One thing I learned though, being a garage, gym athlete in the cold. Because I have an uninsulated detached garage, it just takes all the fun out of fitness, you know, like, I’ll still do it, it’s fine. But I actually really enjoy working out isn’t it, it’s never a thing for me where I’m like, man, I gotta go get my workout. And that’s something I enjoy to do each and every single day. But the cold kind of takes that away from me, I’m kind of like, it becomes this thing where I’m like, well, this is gonna be a little crappy. And I also learned attempting a zone to run on a true form is like the bearings freeze or something, a true form almost doesn’t work at negative four degrees. And so anyone who’s thinking about the true form, just thrown it in a cold garage, I had to run like two miles for a warm up just to get it back, like the friction back to the true form moving like how it should be moving. And it was really funny because I was running like, I was like a nine minute mile, maybe even slower. And I was in zone four. That’s what the true form was saying. But it’s because I was essentially running with brakes on like, you know, like running with a sled behind me. type thing. So that was a that was awesome. But other than that I mentioned, I’ve been taking it easy, right trying to make my back better, and I feel a lot better. I just have not been lifting super heavy I went I’ve been going really light on back squats. For the back squats I have been doing I’ve only been doing box squats. And I completely off running other than the true form experience I just mentioned to you guys, because I wanted to, I was like I kind of want to run today. So I did. But I’ve been on the bike, I definitely probably getting a little bit weaker, and a little bit slower on the BCT for that goal, but my back is feeling a lot better right now. And I’m surprised because it’s really only been about two weeks of this. And I’m not even two weeks, I mean a week and a half or something like that. So I am going to ride it out the rest of the cycle of taking it easy. And I think I don’t know I should be I’ve made this much progress in about two weeks. And I think I I might be able to go full bore back to normal, which I was a little worried about because with back stuff you never know if it’s like this is just a muscular thing or did like jack with a disk or compressed something I shouldn’t have, you know, you never know how serious it’s going to be. And that’s always my concern with anything lower back related. So promising signs. Alright, let’s get into the study. I was really proud of the scientists who name their study. They start with the here’s the name of the study is strong is stronger, better start with the question. And then it says influence of a strength phase followed by a hypertrophy phase on muscular adaptations in resistance trained men. So pretty cool. They they try and in, you know, pique your interest there. So the researchers, they took 26 lifters split them into two groups and had them trained for eight weeks one group performed strength focused training for three weeks followed by hypertrophy focused training for the remaining five weeks, the other group completed hypertrophy focused training for the entire eight weeks. So one group was doing a little bit of strength followed by some muscle growth training. That’s what hypertrophy is. For anyone who doesn’t know when we’re saying hypertrophy a lot this episode, that’s what it means. And the other group did hypertrophy focus training only for eight weeks. And the researchers they wanted to see if and they hypothesize that the combined training group would have greater muscle and strength gains than the hypertrophy group. Which overall and we can get into some of the training how they did it and whatever but the ultimate outcome was from their studies that our results support the use of a period to increase muscle strength prior to an hypertrophy cycle to increase muscle thickness and maximum strength and resistance treatment. So what they’re saying is they think that it’s a good idea to have little strength and then go into hypertrophy. And we can get into the exact results as far as percentages and what the real differences was. Were but I’ll talk to you, people first. So who’s got what?
Joe Courtney
So one of the coolest things that I thought the study did that I think other studies should do is, so they tested them, it was an eight week training protocol. But if I read it correctly, they had a three weeks before they started the pre assessment, have to tell them to do some sort of like this sort of hypertrophy training. And then they started the study and their initial tests, and then the post study tests, so it wasn’t like, they just pulled people off the street. It’s like, yeah, okay, now you can lift our protocol, and then look and see how much better you got. After eight weeks. They actually like had them do it for three weeks to actually prep the body and said, Okay, cool. Your body knows it’s starting to do this. Now. Now we’re going to test you. And then we’re going to see what progresses in eight weeks. I thought that was really, really cool. And good to see. And I think more studies should start to do that. Versus, like we talked about all the time with untrained athletes that Well, yeah, they’re gonna get stronger, because they don’t do anything. So yeah, I thought that was really cool. And that Yeah, strength is good. That’s Yeah, strength is good. Strength is good.
Jerred Moon
strength. Strength track. Yeah,
Joe Courtney
yeah. Yeah, shocker. We, we definitely do a lot of strength with the hypertrophy. So I mean, that’s just, we’re not I’m necessarily always in the the the muscle building field. But this just kind of showed that it is good for everyone to do some sort of strength. But I don’t want to I don’t have too much to say. So I’m gonna pass it on over to Kyle.
Kyle Shrum
I think this just kind of proves it, like strength is kind of a base for everything. I think that’s like strength is just always good. And no matter what it is that you’re doing, you should be training strength. So even if you want, even if you want to focus on hypertrophy, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with focusing on hypertrophy. But if you want to focus on hypertrophy, do some strength work to or maybe even do some strength work first, and then focus on hypertrophy. But I think it also goes the, the other way as well increasing your muscle size. So increasing hypertrophy is also going to increase your strength, you’re going to get stronger by working on hypertrophy as well. So I think I think both of them work. I liked seeing like, I like what Joe brought up about how they did the study. They did like a three week period to familiarize people, but they were also using people I think the the lowest was like four years, or the training experience, like or the average at least was like four years of training experience. So like, these are people who know what they’re doing anyway. So it’s not just that they’re spinning a three week familiarization period, but it’s people who are already familiar with these, with this kind of training anyway, so that’s what I like to see. And it wasn’t just people who are going from nothing and increasing, but there are people who probably already had a good amount of strength and a good amount of hypertrophy anyway. And they were still making increases. So that’s what I that’s what I took from it. I think strength is a base. And no matter what you’re doing, you should be doing string. Ashley, did
you still want to do that? Okay.
Ashley Hicks
So I’m going to just double check. So they talked about how halfway through the strength and the combined group I’ll say, versus just the hypertrophy group, the combined group had more like 4% more like strength and muscle growth than just a hypertrophy group. Correct?
Jerred Moon
It’s like 3.4% during weeks four to eight and 1.4% more over the entire eight weeks.
Ashley Hicks
Yeah, so my thing is strength obviously the combined group the people who did strength and then hypertrophy had more muscle growth towards the end but not like a crazy absurd amount. And not just the fact that you know I think strength should be a base and people should start there but I also think you need to assess your goals figure out what you want to do because I think if you want to get stronger than stick with training that is more strength base like you know if you’re on our programming, you know stick to the strength track and if your goal is to use hypertrophy to probably lean up tone up you know, look jacked, if you will, shred is probably more your your way to go. So, at the end of the day, I think Just choose a program that fits your goals. But obviously, strength was a positive here, but like I said, it wasn’t like a huge difference in my personal opinion.
Jerred Moon
Yeah, I had a very similar takeaway that I wanted to highlight for the garage gym athlete. So they this study did prove that a little bit of strength training before hypertrophy training is marginally better, right? It’s just, it’s a little bit better, but overall not that much different. And I don’t know how much it matters if you are cycling between the two. Because it’s like the chicken and egg argument. It’s like, okay, it doesn’t really matter. Like, because you’re going to be doing both right? Like we’re, we’re going to do some straight strength work and do some straight hypertrophy work. But you do need to know what your goal is. And I don’t think that let’s just say most garaged mathletes, I’d say are more advanced garaged mathletes are very aware, but you do need to be aware of the difference between strength training and hypertrophy training. A lot of people think that they are kind of just the same thing. And they’re not, they’re, they’re very similar, because weights are involved. barbells are involved in things, but they’re very different. So if you’re an athlete listening to this, and you don’t really know what you should be doing, if you want to look a certain way, you do want muscle growth, you want muscles to get bigger, then that’s hypertrophy, you you take a more bodybuilding style approach. And in this specific study, they’re doing four sets of eight to 12, you know, just the typical rep range for hypertrophy. And then if you want to just get stronger, and the protocol they use in this one was four sets of 123, then you just need to be lifting heavy, now you can get a lot stronger without gaining muscle mass. And that’s confusing for some people. So you can gain a lot of strength without any muscle mass. And likewise, you can gain a bunch of muscle mass and not be that strong. And that’s why I always laugh when you see like bodybuilders who are really big. And people think that they’re like good fighters, or you should be scared of this person. It’s like, one, they’re probably not actually that strong. Like, really, they’re probably not that strong. And two, they don’t know how to fight and they can, you know, can’t even touch their back. Like it’s not, not like that that important. So if you want to gain muscle, know how much and for what reasons, but it’s, they’re not the same. And they definitely do complement one another. I do think that when people run into a wall with strength, they need a little bit more hypertrophy. That’s what I I’ve coached athletes on for a long time, I think it also takes a very long time to max out your strength levels. But if you’re, if you are hitting a wall, you might just need a little bit more muscle to then get stronger. So that’s kind of my takeaway know your goal. Are you looking specifically for strength? Or are you looking specifically for your muscles to look a certain way and be certain size? Then go for hypertrophy? So kind of my takeaways for garage mathlete? And that is pretty straightforward. The programming was straightforward. The study was straightforward, and nothing too. too tricky on this one.
Joe Courtney
Yeah, they can be used to complement each other. And depending on where you’re at 100% to switch switch
it up.
Jerred Moon
Yeah. Especially on the strict press. No, let’s
not talk about the strict press.
Jerred Moon
People run into walls with strict press all the time. And breakups. Yeah, I mean, just the short press is an interesting one, because you’re just using tiny muscles. And you also have tiny numbers. You know what I mean? Like, trigger
the hashtag. So
Jerred Moon
it’s everybody like if you’re, if you’re pressing 200 pounds or more, you’re really freaking strong. And if you’re lift, pressing 95 pounds. A Yeah, there you go. You’re pressing 95 pounds and you want a 10 pound PR. That’s absurd, right? That’s like, that’s, that’s 10%. Right? Like, that should take a long time. That’s like equivalent of adding. Yeah, like 4050 pounds to my back squat right now. Like, that’s, that’s
Joe Courtney
a lot.
Jerred Moon
Yeah, that’s all I need. Right. But it’s really hard to do. Right? That’s a really hard for me to get to that number. And that’s the same, the strict press. So one, I think expectation management on the strict press is one thing, but another just be actually hypertrophy on the deltoids hypertrophy on the triceps hypertrophy. All the surrounding areas that are going to help you press are a great way to get that strict press up in a relatively short amount of time.
Kyle Shrum
It’s amazing how heavy those five pound plates get when you throw them on a strict press.
Ashley Hicks
You ain’t wrong, bro. Or two and a half pounds that equal five total pounds. Yeah.
Kyle Shrum
This rep went up. Good. Put the fives on it. It’s not going anywhere. It’s
Jerred Moon
Yeah, I love failing on a strict press. It’s like, worse. there literally is like there’s a line in the sand. I don’t know why it’s like, because it does normal. It’s normally pretty easy. You know, like the and then yeah, you go up that you need two and a half on each side. And then you have to NASA it’s not happening. It’s not going up. So
Joe Courtney
for test strict presses is the only time I use two and a half because you Little increments.
Kyle Shrum
Really? You don’t have changed plates.
Joe Courtney
Now No, no. Hey, hey,
Ashley Hicks
I like my fractional plates.
Joe Courtney
Also fractional plates don’t count for prs. Just saying,
gone from 95 to 97. One day.
Jerred Moon
So where does everyone stand on this? the usefulness of 35 pound plates then? cuz I’ve heard this is the thing in the garage gym world.
Kyle Shrum
I never used why,
Joe Courtney
but I never use them. But the redheaded stepchild of the plates can fake 45 that’s been perfect. For a sudden thing Well,
Jerred Moon
apparently coupe who does garage gym reviews and Mark rippetoe. Think 30 fives are useless. I use 30 fives all the time?
Kyle Shrum
I don’t know that. I wouldn’t say that they’re useless. I just say that. I don’t use them. Because, yeah, typically, like I’m typically I’m doing warm up. And if I’m, if I have 20 fives on there, for the warmup, then I’ll just throw it to 10. Yeah, yeah, I’ll just add a 10. Instead of taking the 25 off and getting a 35. And putting it on, I just take one step out, and I just put it in on or something like that
Ashley Hicks
more efficient or lazy. Now I’m just
Kyle Shrum
moving from the 25 to the 40 bucks. And so I just take the 25 off and put the 45
Jerred Moon
that was a flex flex. That was very, is a good thing too, because he knew it was coming, which is what I was gonna say. But now he flex I don’t have to say anything. But I’m
Ashley Hicks
thinking like if we have like power cleans and workout and I want to go higher than 85 pounds because I have a female barbell or a 95 105 I’ll do 105 for reps or something like that, you know, sometimes, because it’s like, in between 95 and 125 when I put the 45 on an a, on a female barbell, so I don’t discriminate on any weight or weight plate.
Jerred Moon
I’ve put two and a half on for a back squat because that’s five pound PR.
Kyle Shrum
I used to I used to have to like I don’t just use them for strict press, but I don’t know I just I actually have my 35 sitting behind my 40 fives because on the like I’ve never used them
Joe Courtney
to anchors.
Jerred Moon
I don’t I don’t have any fractional plates.
Kyle Shrum
I won’t hate I don’t have I don’t have the change plates either. So
Jerred Moon
I feel like that could be like a, like a rounding error. Or just like the gravity is different that day.
Joe Courtney
Put on two clips.
Ashley Hicks
I do. Jared doesn’t use clips. He only has one set.
Jerred Moon
Yeah, my clips pretty much damn I reverse hyper so I don’t use clips for anything else.
Kyle Shrum
Today, it would just it would bother me in pounds if the pounds don’t end in a zero or a five. Like if I was lifting with kg plates. That would be fun. But like what’s kg plates? kilogram gram?
Jerred Moon
Just joking. Yeah.
Kyle Shrum
I mean, some people out there may not have known what? You’re right. Okay.
Joe Courtney
Illa gorilla.
Ashley Hicks
It’s a brand.
Jerred Moon
You know why we don’t lift in kilograms.
Joe Courtney
Because we wanted to be different.
Ashley Hicks
In America,
Jerred Moon
cuz we we won World War Two.
Kyle Shrum
Back to Back to moving on.
Joe Courtney
We weren’t very well in Germany anyway.
Jerred Moon
All right.
Ashley Hicks
Now there’s so many people.
Jerred Moon
Yeah. Okay, so what’s the topic? Jared?
Joe Courtney
How you explain the topic? Cuz apparently you didn’t realize what it was? Really,
Jerred Moon
I prep for a different topic. So I just want to make sure you tell us. Well, then you guys don’t have to go on the fly instead of me. So
Ashley Hicks
that Joe don’t set us up for failure,
Joe Courtney
I think would be fun. Okay, what is the best advice we have received? From for about fitness so received from somebody else? So I know, Jared always asked everybody, what’s the what’s the best advice they have, you know, get would give to people out there, whatever. But you know, in our own fitness journey, what is the best advice we have received, been given, bequeathed whatever. And I’m gonna go with mobility on mine. And the reason why the reason why I’m for mobility is why I’ve actually gotten really good at mobility is because mobility, mobility has sucked in the past. And it’s been out of necessity. So it’s not like I’ve gone out there and be like, yeah, I want to learn about mobility. It’s been, hey, all these things hurt and I can’t reach above my head, so helped me person. And then they put me through a lot of pain. And then I learned so mobility has been really great because of, you know, range of motion, pains and anything like that, then being able to help help out athletes. Also, whenever, you know, melodies kind of It’s a crazy thing, because a lot of times when you think something hurts it that’s not what you actually need to work on. And just learning how you know, I never took any biology class. classes or anatomy in colleges, I don’t really know how the body works in those ways. But learning how, you know, when I’m going through a building and stuff also helps you with lifting as well as for how you move and how you how things are affected, how you can improve and pre rehabbing and rehabbing any sort of issues. So I think it, it has been really helpful for, you know, before, during, and after workouts, learning, mobility, and then now being able to help people who have limitations with like, you know, their front rack, a lot of people have issues with their front rack and be able to help people with that, or, you know, squats and things of that nature. So, I think mobility, just learning how to go through that. And I guess it was isn’t like, one piece of advice that I was told that, you know, changed everything. It was just learning and about mobility and how best to go about it and, you know, parents stability, with mobility, and all those things that whole encompass that. So mobility for me, Ashley, what do you got?
Ashley Hicks
So I had a coach. He was actually a CrossFit coach at the time he is now since quit CrossFit. And he does I think he still does Olympic lifting. His name is Brent Ragsdale. So if you’re listening, Brent, this is for me, um, he told me, because I was very, I would I drink the CrossFit Kool Aid, right? So I would get this like hothead of, man, I’ve kind of made it, I can do everything at Rx, and yada, yada, yada. And his advice to me was never stop learning. You don’t know everything, and you never will. And I think you can apply that with not just your training. Like, I think that’s just great life advice. there so much to learn out there and do and I think I even said this on my, when you guys interviewed me for the very first athlete interview. And I’m sticking to it, because I think that you can learn new movements, you can learn all sorts of stuff while you’re training. But then like in life as well, I think you can learn all sorts of lessons and apply them to, you know, everything. So I kind of went a little bit outside of the box there and not just about training. But that’s my, that’s my advice. Kyle, what is yours.
Kyle Shrum
So, I don’t want it to sound like I’m just sucking up to my boss. But the two best pieces of fitness advice that I’ve ever had both came from Jared. So the first one was the article that I read that actually brought me to garage, gym athlete in the first place, which was seven ways to train alone and actually push yourself. And the specific piece of advice in that article was basically put your money where your mouth is, in other words, invest money in your training, invest something in your training and make it something that’s substantial enough that you’re going to notice it that you’re going to notice that investment that it specifically for me, it was investing money that was literally coming out of my bank account every month, invested, instead of just sticking to the free stuff, because the free stuff, shred basically all the free stuff that I could find, and none of it stuck in it’s because I wasn’t, it wasn’t hurting, like it wasn’t something that I was actually having to invest in, it was just free, it was just there. And there was really no accountability whatsoever towards whether I actually did it or not. And so once I started actually investing in my programming, and investing actual money in my fitness, which at the time was, you know, a little bit more of my budget than it is now. But at the time, it was something that I actually noticed coming out of my my account every month. And so that was the first thing was actually invest something that’s gonna build in that accountability, something that’s gonna make it hurt a little bit, to actually to actually follow through on it. And then the second one was like during coaching. In that first year that I was an athlete, was we talked about cheating, cheat, cheat meals on your diet. And this one just like, completely changed the way that I look at nutrition. And understanding what cheating is, first of all, just stop using the phrase cheat meal, like just don’t use it, because it’s not really helpful at all. But if you do want to use the phrase, then understand what cheating actually is cheating is something that gives you an advantage over your competition, even though it’s against the rules. It’s something that helps you and something that helps you win. And it gives you an advantage. And so typically, what people are talking about when they’re talking about a cheat meal is something that is off of their diet plan, right. It’s off of their nutrition plan. So it’s typically something like for me, it would be like Oreos, Right. And I won’t talk about how many of them that I can eat at once. But something like that is what people are talking about with a cheat meal most of the time, but eating a bunch of Oreos is not giving you an advantage. It’s not helping you. It’s not progressing you forward, it’s not giving you an advantage over, it’s not helping you win. And so it can’t be a cheat meal, if it’s not helping you get better, faster or giving you an advantage over the competition. So really, a cheat meal is actually eating healthy. A cheat meal is actually something that’s helping you feel better, operate better. It’s helping you it’s supporting your training, it’s doing all those those are actual cheat meals. And so really, that’s what’s giving you an advantage over other people, and especially giving you an advantage over the old version of yourself that was slow and sick and just not doing really well. So just kind of flipping the script on the whole cheat meal thing. But the biggest piece of that is just like stop saying cheat meal. But understand that if you’re going to use it understand what a cheat meal actually is. So those are the two biggest pieces that best pieces of fitness advice that I’ve ever gotten. So, Jared, thank you. Yeah, those pieces of advice. Well,
Jerred Moon
I kind of went a little outside the box with mine as well, with you know, you learn, I learned in the military as a leader, that you learn a lot more from the people who suck than you do the people who are awesome. Like when you have like a command or somebody who’s just really taking care of their people and doing really well. And everything’s running smoothly, you don’t really notice so much when someone’s doing awesome, to be honest. Like, you might notice things here and there. But if things are just kind of running as a well oiled machine, and you are part of that well oiled machine, you just feel like things are going as they should. So it takes perspective at times, to get like a really crappy leader to realize Holy crap, things can be a lot worse when someone is not doing what they’re supposed to when they don’t care about people. And you know, this is more of a leadership lesson that I got from the military. But anytime I would encounter a boss or a leader who I was just like, Man, this person is a piece of crap. Like, they don’t know anything. They don’t care about anybody. Like, you learn a lot from those. And so I always learned a lot more from a leadership perspective for people who, who sucked. And I’d be like, wow, I don’t want to be that way when I get into your position. And so my best advice is not really necessarily advice. But I’ve mentioned before my uncle who got me into fitness in the first place, like a long time ago, he got me into fitness, told me I was too skinny, and I needed to work out whatever I I followed all the advice. He’s the reason I’m I’m sitting right here right now, because of how much I got into fitness under his direction. But I would say I don’t know, maybe 10 years into my fitness journey. He’s not necessarily at the end of his journey. But he’s, you know, older, and he’s getting shoulder surgeries and hip replacements and all these things because he was a hardcore powerlifter hardcore meathead. And so it has nothing to do with leadership, let me just like go, you know, right around that, but he loves strength training so much. But now it’s not really something that he can do. And he’s not that into anymore. He’s still like, trying to do things here and there. But he’s, he’s severely broken. And we’ve seen if you’ve seen that, I can’t recall the name of the documentary, but the one with Ronnie Coleman, right, very similar story to my my uncle. And so those were, you know, my uncle specifically was like, that was a huge eye opener for me a long time ago, because I was like, I’m on the same path as him, you know, so I was kind of learning what not to do. And I’m a lot less hardcore than, than I used to be. And it’s kind of intentional, you know, I’m, I’m not trying to break my body Every time I go into the gym. And while I am trying to potentially squat 500 pounds, I’m trying to do in a very safe way, like my backs are hurting. And I’m like, I’m out, you know, I’m gonna, I’m taking everything off, taking everything back in my back doesn’t snap back, I’ll be done. You know what I mean? Like, there’s these are easy decisions. For me. I’m not a professional athlete who needs to train through the pain. But I didn’t used to have this mindset. My old mindset was just crush everything. You know, rub some dirt on it, like you’ll be fine, walk it off type thing, but it’s all you only have one body. And if you break it, or you end up with some chronic pain, you’re gonna have it for the rest of your life. You can do a lot of things to work around it. But I don’t want to be limited in any capacity. I only want my fitness at this point in my life to you know, be able to facilitate the things that I want to do, you know, with my kids and an out in the world and I like being in Above Average shape, but I don’t have any desire to be competitive. I think that if you look at elite, like, Look, let’s look at Matt Fraser Frazier just retired from the CrossFit Games, the dude’s like 30. Right, maybe 31. I don’t know, I don’t actually know his age. But I know he’s not very old. froning retired from individual competition, very similar. I think he was like, 3031. That is a short, short life cycle. And it just shows you, those guys can say whatever the hell they want, about why they’re not doing it anymore. But I think that they know what I know. And that it’s if you keep doing what you’re doing, you’re not gonna have much body left, when you’re 45 when you’re 55. And so I think everyone has to go through this and you learn it. But that’s been my biggest takeaway is just watching other people and seeing how broken they get doing the things that they love, but happens to NFL athletes, it happens to endurance athletes. So that’s not even though I like to take shots across it, that’s not a shot at CrossFit, it happens to a lot of different people in every sport, so that that’s my best advice is to not be so hardcore. Now the actual best advice I’ve ever received from a coach was in Olympic lifting, I hit a PR on the snatch. And that felt really kind of like easy and effortless. And he was like, you’re done for the day. And I was like, Why? I was like, I’m, I feel like I could go more. And he’s like, nope, you had a PR, you know, today’s done, you can you can train again tomorrow. And that again, my more hardcore mentality was like, let’s go more, let’s let’s find out where that failure breaking point is. But he didn’t want me to. And I thought that was really, really good advice. That wasn’t typical of my mindset at that time. And that was like direct advice, as opposed to the kind of work around advice I was talking about before. So yeah, that’s kind of my, my biggest advice I’ve gotten that’s probably helped me. Not be in pain. Right.
Kyle Shrum
And don’t end on a failed Rep. And don’t a good Rep. Not on a failed Rep.
Jerred Moon
Yeah. To see even even I still argue that in my brain because I’m like, I would be fine. I’d be fine. I’m fine with failure, and then try again the next day. But I get it though. I do think that Olympic lifting is like golf and all these other skilled sports where if you get in your head, you’re screwed. You’re like crown. Yeah, you get in your head, you’re screwed. So you have to have to be effortless.
Joe Courtney
Yeah, but I’m not gonna, you know, take all fives and put on fractional plates just so I can get the last rep in.
Okay, I
Kyle Shrum
know. Not gonna use the 30 fives either.
Ashley Hicks
I use the 35 for my snatch.
Jerred Moon
I have to use 35 all the time. That’s my take on
Ashley Hicks
max snatch back in the day was like 120 pounds. So definitely had 35 that’s a five and two and a half.
Jerred Moon
I don’t even know where my I should go look at my one rep maxes. See, I don’t know my one rep maxes in any reality. Like I may have just
journals,
Jerred Moon
I may have PR my back squat. But the reason it’s like Why don’t you know it’s because there was a time period in my life where I was in that bodybuilding only strength training world. And I have old journals that say I squatted like 470 and like was doing 405 for like 10 reps and all sorts of crazy junk. But I also think my range of motion was pretty piss poor back then. So I don’t know if I can even count any of those numbers from back in the day I feel like it was like a 470 squat quarter squat and then go back up right like it wasn’t like a real a real movement so that’s why I don’t know my prs are like my ears no rips my press ability used to be bro reps like stupid but I don’t think I was like he’s doing right
Joe Courtney
we’ve I just started thinking of that there’s I don’t know if you know for say this, but yeah, whatever. I’ve already started. There’s a guy, our gym. Our gym that works out that I have dubbed half rep Harry, because everything he does half Rep.
Ashley Hicks
There was a girl like that at Lakenheath at the gym, and she’d like widen her stance. And she’d of course have the like padded barbell, you know, and she just loves soccer. Just
Kyle Shrum
I do not have a pad of Barbara
beer.
I don’t know why you’re in my brain that you have.
Kyle Shrum
I never have had one. Never
Jerred Moon
probably like the third time I’ve called you out on the podcast about it.
Joe Courtney
It’s never existed. Chairs video gym, right? I know, right?
Kyle Shrum
Like the buddy of mine has a Raj I worked out in when I first started. Oh, he had a pad in his gym. And he would use it sometimes but I never used it.
Jerred Moon
I think you I think you may be just just mentioned it when you’re like, what are your thoughts on these pads for bars? And I was like, What do you just say? Isn’t it it’s just in the it’s in there and wondering,
Kyle Shrum
why has it? I thought it was weird that it was there, right? No.
Jerred Moon
Good tangents. These are great. They’re all on topic, though. Relatively.
Help us.
Jerred Moon
So we’re gonna get into the Sally’s revenge. Who wants to take this one?
Joe Courtney
I gotta have it. Oh, okay. No, you
got it.
Joe Courtney
It’s always it’s always either zero or two people have it never just one
Jerred Moon
or two is right.
Joe Courtney
Yeah. All right. So Sally, Sally’s revenge. So it’s gonna start off with one mile run. Then right? When you get back from that mile, you’re gonna load up the song. We got it. Flower by Moby
Jerred Moon
you can you can google bring Sally up if you want to, you’ll find something.
Joe Courtney
Yeah, it’ll probably be other people doing like squats to it. But you’re going to bring up that song. And you’re going to do Sally up pull ups to that song, which is extremely hard. Then you’re going to rest for three minutes, then you’re going to do start that song over and do Sally up push ups. Then you’re going to rest three minutes. And then you’re gonna start that song over again and do Sally up squats. And then right when you’re done your squats of that song, you’re going to go and run another mile. And for the extreme completionist you should just listen to that song during the miles. because that’ll just it’ll make you finish that last mile faster. Because you just want to be done with that song.
Jerred Moon
Is there a weight recommendation on the squat? I thought there was Yeah. 45
Ashley Hicks
to 65.
Yeah, are gonna take everything
Ashley Hicks
recruits were body weight, nothing, no weight, obviously. 45 to 65. And then 95 to 125 for competitive level.
135 35 Sorry,
Ashley Hicks
I think female barbells My bad. Yeah, we’re not putting
Kyle Shrum
35 pounds. You can’t mass right.
Ashley Hicks
35 pound barbell. Yeah, jerk.
Joe Courtney
It is a lot harder to add this. But yeah. Anyways, that
Ashley Hicks
was one of my points. I said, only listen, I only listened to the flower song the entire workout. And that’s what I did. But I like this one because it exposes the areas that you need to work on. Like, for me, it’s always push ups. I don’t know why push ups get me I love to bench but I just not a great push up. Anyways. So try to keep that core tight, try to really work on that form. Because it’s just going to obviously make you better. So if you need to scale down and get down on your knees, because you’re doing things wrong, that’s okay. Like, you know, man up and do it that way. Same thing with a squats. Check your weight on that man, it’s gonna get spicy real quick. And if you can’t do 95 pounds for that entire thing, like, you’re just gonna dump the weight and not be able to complete the whole thing. So try to stick with a weight that you can complete the entire thing. And and I think this is where the mental part comes in. Your body is going to be like this sucks. Just keep keep going. It’s going to be okay, your legs are going to be on fire afterwards. And that second mile is going to be quite dicey. But that’s alright.
Kyle Shrum
Yeah, so those squats are Paul squats. Yes,
you’re holding up the bar.
Kyle Shrum
So when he says, Yeah, so when he says green salad down, you go down with the squat. You have to stay there until he says green Sally up.
Jerred Moon
It’s a ring. let’s not pretend like the lyrics to this. No, I think you’re right.
Ashley Hicks
I’m like it’s flower.
Kyle Shrum
I don’t know what it is pretty anyway, it’s when he says go down, you go down until you he says to come back up. So just keep in mind that factor that in when you’re when you’re picking your weight for the squats that you’re doing Paul squats, you’re gonna be doing Paul squats for like, a little over three minutes. So just be mindful. And yeah, I would reiterate what Ashley said mind your squat form. So just because you’re going to have to leave them from those squats and go run a mile immediately, you know, have a rest period after the squat. So and just mounting your squat form is just something you should be doing anyway. So especially if you’re using weight. If you’re using any of the weight. Then make sure that your mind in your squat form.
Ashley Hicks
I would also challenge you because you talked about pause squats. If you’re at the bottom of it don’t just bottom out and be lazy down there. Like actually,
Kyle Shrum
you know excited? Yes. Yep.
Yep.
Kyle Shrum
And this is the only Moby song that I’ve ever listened to. Same old way listen to it during this workout and never, ever again. I probably have heard of an accident and I just didn’t know it was him. Okay,
Jerred Moon
Did you go Joe?
Joe Courtney
I mean, I briefed it
Jerred Moon
doesn’t seem like you want to go either. Okay. That’s fine. Don’t worry about it. Run the miles fast as fast as you possibly can. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say this might be the hardest meter. So Saturday workout
Joe Courtney
to complete, fully
Jerred Moon
complete to do it. I think a lot of people are taking breaks and not actually able to do it. And that’s fine. It’s a hard workout. But I think this might actually be the hardest one to do over any other one. And I’ve done this one, and it’s the worst. That’s why I say it. I, I hate this workout with a passion. So it means I need to do it. I need like do it when it’s programmed. So I’ll do it this week.
Ashley Hicks
So you’re saying what the pull ups are you hanging when it says greens led?
Jerred Moon
Yeah, hanging at the bottom. And I probably cannot do that right now. I have to be in like, my Murph shape. I’m not my Murph shape right now. All Murph shape is is doing lots of frickin pull ups every single week. And I’m not doing as many right now. So yeah, that’s hanging from the bar at the bottom, chin over the bar at the top, right, that’s really crappy. The push ups aren’t as hard. If you do them by, like, if you were to just do it to the song by itself, not that big of a deal. But after your arms are completely blown out from the pull ups moving to the push ups. Because I thought that part was gonna be easy. I’m like, Okay, this is gonna kind of be a break. And it was so challenged, the push ups were awful. And then 135 is what I decided I thought I could handle on the squats. And just the worst. So yeah, it’s it’s a horrible workout. From start to finish, if you can do every single bit without taking the breaks, then we should probably just have a patch for this workout. The Sally patch? Yeah, the Sally patch is this one’s pretty crazy. But my advice is, yeah, I think Ashley mentioned just picking the right weights and stuff. And I’d say movements to for yourself. So most, there’s probably, I don’t know, five or less people who could do the pull up version of this in the community right now. And I only say that because of maybe Chris Morgan because he’s doing 16 murders a week or whatever. So anyone who’s doing a lot of pull ups on a regular basis, you might be able to do this. And I know Ryan cazal is really good to post to so I would challenge you guys to give it a shot to see if you can do it for the full song. But otherwise, you’re gonna have to scale down and so ring rows. And then even with the ring rows, choose the right level of ring row, right, because there’s there’s feet on the bench, which is the hardest version of the ring row. And then there’s, you can have like 45 degree angle, 30 degree angle, like wherever you want to make it the most challenging. So just pick the right one and stick to it. Don’t start with rows on a bench, and then make it easier and easier to put my feet on the ground, I’m going to go up to 45 or higher and higher. So just pick the right sub from the start. And then with the push ups. I mean I go to your knees if you have to. Just don’t take breaks, don’t stop doing the work is what I’m trying to get across. Don’t stop doing the work. Most of you, everyone listening, most of you 95% probably shouldn’t touch a barbell on the squats. And if you if you are it’s going to be an empty barbell. The only reason I did 135 is because I’ve done it. I’ve done it a lot. I’ve done the Sally up with squats a lot. I’ve done it. I’ve done it two minutes in a row with 135 and actually completed it are to the song twice in a row with 135 and completed it like I’ve done this a lot. And especially when I was in the military, I made my airman do it almost like every training day, like as a warm up with squats. So we just did this a lot. We just did it a lot. So I was very accustomed to it. And then I started doing it with weight and so I had worked up to it, but it’s not something I recommend. So pick the weight either maybe, maybe a vest, maybe an empty barbell, or just bodyweight only, but just pick the right level for you. And no ego on this one. No matter. It’s very challenging one
Ashley Hicks
dude pulled straight up Jason khalipa went nuts.
Jerred Moon
He did it with 225 I think.
Ashley Hicks
Yeah, Miranda Oldroyd did it was 135 miles like Good gracious.
Jerred Moon
Yeah, I had better muscular endurance. I just did 135 twice. But yeah, that’s a long time.
It is a lot.
Jerred Moon
All right. Has the podcast reached its natural conclusion.
Kyle Shrum
Link so All right, cool. talk you out. Today,
Joe Courtney
dude. I’m just Full of vocabulary
Jerred Moon
words, that word of the day toilet paper. I got you.
Joe Courtney
That’s it. And I did go a few times a day. So it was very helpful.
Jerred Moon
Yeah. All right. Well, if
Kyle Shrum
that’s all we’re getting out of that, if you like it,
Jerred Moon
if you like this crew right here, no, we could be fully responsible for your your programming and fitness needs. So go to garage, gym athlete comm and sign up for that free trial. Now, every athlete out there who is already a member, we really do appreciate you being listening to podcasts being part of the community, which again, the best part of what we do is the community. It’s like a fine line. It’s getting better with age, I could think it would get worse, but it’s just getting better and better. So the community is awesome. If you want to join and be a part of a very supportive and positive community, perhaps the only one on Facebook. Honestly, it might be the only one. We’ve had people say that I’m not the first to make the claim. We’ve had people in the community say, Hey, this is the only place on Facebook where it doesn’t suck. And that that might be true. So yeah, join us and if you are on the fence you’ve been thinking about these guys crazy did the workout so they too hard. You can figure it all out for 14 days for free. Like I said garage mathlete comm sign up for that free trial and you’ll be good to go. But that’s it for this one, guys.