Hey, Athletes! Do you wear knee sleeves or wraps while training? Listen to this week’s episode of the Garage Gym Athlete podcast to hear how hopefully they actually are.
Episode 65 of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up!
The Science on Knee Wraps and Knee Sleeves
In this week’s episode, we have Jerred, Joe, Ashley, and VD. After they give us their updates and announcements they dive into this week’s study. The study is over knee sleeves and wraps and how effective they actually are. For this week’s topic, the crew talks about how they go about choosing a track when it comes to new cycles.
Lastly, this week’s Meet Yourself Saturday workout is the 60 minute run for max meters. The coaches each give their own tips on how to tackle this one.
If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast either on Stitcher, iTunes, or Google Play by using the link below:
IN THIS 49-MINUTE EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
- Choosing a Track
- Knee Sleeves
- 60 Minute Run For Max Meters
- Ashley’s Health Update
- Knee Wraps
- New Cycles!
- Updates and Announcements
- And A LOT MORE!!
If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here are some links for you:
Study of the Week
- Acute effects of knee wraps/sleeve on kinetics, kinematics and muscle forces during the barbell back squat
Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week
Be sure to listen to this week’s episode:
Related Resources at End of Three Fitness:
Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!
To becoming better!
The Science on Knee Wraps and Knee Sleeves
[00:00:00] Jerred Moon: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage gym athlete podcast. I’m your host, Jared moon. The garage team athlete podcast is a result of my desire to build better humans, unequivocal coaches, and autonomous athletes. I’ve spent the last several years obsessing over program design nutrition in every other way, you can optimize human performance.
This podcast is stills. The lady scientific research with what I’ve learned. Yeah. And blends it with the not so scientific field of mental toughness. We are here to build you into a dangerously effective athlete. If you enjoy this podcast, you can find out more about our firstname.lastname@example.org.
And if you want to pursue more into the field of coaching and programming, head to email@example.com. Thanks for listening.
[00:01:00] All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage gym athlete podcast. Jared moon here with Ashley Hicks. What’s up Ashley?
Ashley Hicks: Good morning.
Jerred Moon: We have Joe Courtney. How’s it going?
Joe Courtney: Good evening.
Jerred Moon: And VD. Welcome.
VD: Thank you. I’m here. Good morning, I guess.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. It’s morning for everybody. Even Joe lives in the, in the morning time in the U S are you accustomed yet?
It’s been like a week.
Joe Courtney: It’s getting pretty close. So like, I think actually when we came out to, what is the, the sleep book or is it breath? I don’t know which one it was. I think it was a sleep book that it takes like an hour per day, per time zone. Yes. And I was on like a 10 minute per day, per time zone pace for the first like five days.
And then it started to bump up to like 30 minutes per day. So I’m like, I’m like close.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. I’ve never, never experienced a time zone shift that hardcore all three of you pretty much have, but
VD: it’s [00:02:00] about two weeks for me.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. A week for me.
Joe Courtney: And we’re about 10 days. We’re going to the bed at the, about the right time, but I still wake up about an hour later than normal.
Jerred Moon: Well, let’s go with Ashley how’s life.
Ashley Hicks: Life is kicking. my little one turns two on Friday, and I cannot believe that he’s two. So there’s that?
Jerred Moon: it’s awesome.
Ashley Hicks: Yeah, it’s super, it’s super cute. We’re going to have a toy story. Theme, birthday party for him. Cause he’s obsessed with buzz light mere lately.
So it’s super cute. He loves toy story. But these last couple of weeks have been kind of crazy, actually. So we’ve Scott went TDY, so I’ve been by myself, solo parenting and then, hurricane Sally hits. So I don’t know why just like a natural disaster makes everything seem longer, even though it’s only been a two week TDY, he’s definitely gone on longer TD wise, but, a TDY just for those civilians that don’t know what that means is a work [00:03:00] trip for military, but.
Anyways. And then, day after he left, I actually got, a diagnosis, for my thyroid. I’ve been talking about. All the testing I’ve been done. And so basically what the doctors found were cancerous cells in a nodule on the right side of my thigh. So after we found that out, obviously we did everything in, well, I did everything in my power to try to get things moving.
but. As of yesterday. So two weeks after the diagnosis, I finally have an appointment with an ENT to just kinda look over everything. I have an another ultrasound to see if the cancer is spread to my lymph nodes kind of thing. And so we, I don’t find out anything until October 7th, so it was just a waiting game.
So patience is the name of the game right now, but
Jerred Moon: yeah. That’s big news [00:04:00] and, yeah. Thoughts and prayers from everybody listening, for Ashley and, you know, we’ll be here with you every step of the way.
Ashley Hicks: Yeah. Thanks guys,
Jerred Moon: Joe. How’s Bahrain.
Joe Courtney: Well, as I mentioned before, I’m adjusting, I am still in, full on lockdown and the hotel cannot leave.
Although we got to go outside yesterday, even though it was, it was bittersweet because we had to get tested. So I had to get nasal probed
Jerred Moon: forgot to go outside. I love it
Joe Courtney: for the second time. Oh my God. I walked outside. And even though it was, it feels like it was 109. it’s still, like, I pulled my mass down over my nose just to breathe in fresh air.
And it was like the happiest moment that I’ve had in a while. And it’s really sad cause I breathe fresh air and would just that kind of day. Yeah. So yesterday was the second day we got tested and both times we got our results back in a negative. So COVID-19 twice now, which means we are smooth sailing to get released from.
Quarantined [00:05:00] at day 14, which will be Friday. So by the time of this publishing, we will have been released. But until then, I’m still on lockdown
Ashley Hicks: on any weekend plans
Joe Courtney: for a, we’re going to, she knows some people here and we’re going to one of their places they live on. Like, so there’s like these manmade islands, because that’s just what they do here.
They make their own islands. they live on the Island, so we’re going to go there and hang out by their pool and water and stuff. And just be outside. Just, just get some D get that vitamin D
VD: take a phone over those islands before. They’re pretty amazing. Is that the Palm tree shape islands?
Joe Courtney: I think you’re, you’re referring to the ones in Dubai or Qatar, but they pretty much have similar ones here.
How they do that. Yeah. Working out has been okay for a little bit. I was doing super sets and stuff. I’ve posted a video of some of the band and things that I was doing to get creative, but now I’m just like over it. It’s just like laying, working out in a hotel. Like I’m doing,
Jerred Moon: dude, it’s been so long.
You’ve been it’s so long.
[00:06:00] Joe Courtney: Yeah. Cause it’s, it’s not even just like, Oh, okay. I was working on a normal than I have a month of hotel stuff. Cool. It’s like, yeah. Hey, I’ve been doing body weight things for seven months now, and then I’m trapped in a hotel. So this is fun.
Jerred Moon: You got to touch a barbell at my house for a day.
Joe Courtney: That’s true. That was a very happy day. We got to do dead lifts and then some sandbag running and I didn’t even care. It’s good. so mostly supersets and stuff, but then there was one day where. So I was sitting on this idea for weeks. I was like, this is such a bad idea. Only want to say it. So I just sat on it for a few weeks.
And then I finally told Liz, and when I told her if she was even like a, and that was it actually wasn’t as bad as it seems, but I was like, well, since we can’t do cardio, what if we just do 30 minutes of zone, two burpees, just burpees for 30 minutes, keeping in zone two. So instead of that, because that would just get boring after awhile, we just did a, it was just a body weight free for all.
Zone two for 30 minutes. So it was like, Hey, let’s do some burpees. Then I’m going to go do some lunges. And then I’m going to do this, that, and the other, some jumping squats. [00:07:00] And that was the only cardio that I’ve done in the hotel
Jerred Moon: that randomness, you just described hurts my brain.
Joe Courtney: Yeah, it was all to just keep my heart rate up.
That’s all it was. Cause what I mean, I’m not going to just run in place. Or a jump rope would tear up my Achilles. So yeah, that’s
Jerred Moon: working out in hotel sound, do burpees are not easy. It’s kind of like a zone to Murph, very similar. Where, what workout is that? Right. And we need to get that back on the calendar.
What was that one? 17
Ashley Hicks: Murph.
Jerred Moon: No, where we do the burpees and you have to, you have to be me.
Ashley Hicks: Oh, the burpees. And then the pullups.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. And you have to be at like certain heart rates.
Joe Courtney: Oh, the one that I never did, I did the original version.
Jerred Moon: Yes. Wow. Where is that guy?
Joe Courtney: I don’t know
Jerred Moon: what it was called. Fat and sugar.
Joe Courtney: Cause you want me to stay in zone two and then go all the way up to zone four, which has a number of our is doing four in case you don’t know how to count.
Jerred Moon: It’s not to say I knew I had done zone two burpees before, so [00:08:00] yeah, we’re going to bring that one back. That’s it’s coming maybe today.
Joe Courtney: Audible
VD: changing on the
Joe Courtney: fly. Wait, I got to put it in the team better, real quick and extra special.
Jerred Moon: Cool man. Well, good update. hopefully you’re back to a gym or garage or basement or room something happens here,
Joe Courtney: but yeah, I’ll be somewhere doing something.
Jerred Moon: I don’t have basements here either.
Ashley Hicks: I mean at one man system to Bata though, I always just go.
Joe Courtney: I remember those and there’s always made me nauseous. Those days probably probably should do them, but I did a Tabata burpees one day. It’s getting crazy
Jerred Moon: VD how’s life, man.
VD: Oh, good. I, my updates aren’t as long as everyone else’s however, road kettlebells came back into stock
Jerred Moon: for like 10 minutes. So
VD: I was able to get two of those.
So I got a pair of 50 threes, in anticipation of the [00:09:00] new cycle. So that’s my big update. Otherwise everything’s same, same. So adjusting here still in flight training, should be done in a couple of weeks ago, probably about by, the alluded in Halloween,
Jerred Moon: for sure.
Joe Courtney: Playing your video games
VD: kind of.
Yeah. So a lot
Jerred Moon: of Mario fences for the real thing.
so updates for me. I just have to, A update on the garments. Since the last time I had used a updated the garment, I’d only been using it for three days and now I’m at like, I don’t know, 10 days or whatever. awesome. It’s awesome. It’s a great, I don’t have a huge, I haven’t seen any huge issues with the heart rate thing.
while training, I have noticed some weird heart rate readings, like. Cause it just, it does continuous heart rate, monitor monitoring, and sometimes I’ll just be like sitting and it’ll be like your heart. Rate’s one Oh one. I’m like, no, it’s not. so other than that, but during training, it seems to be, seems to be great.
And [00:10:00] for running, I don’t know if there’s a better watch to be honest, like the Garmin is like, Because of how you can set up the screens and the intervals and like all these things, you can build interval workouts in the app and then send it to the phone and all this stuff. and my biggest problem with this was always pissed me off of the Apple watch is I could never see current laptop.
I’m sure there’s some app you could download or whatever. And people tell me that I don’t want to download it now because I don’t want to. It’s not a laziness thing. I just don’t want to have to use this app for this specific thing. so that was the only thing. I mean, I love the Apple watch, but that’s the only thing I didn’t like.
And, Garmin has solved that problem, but, otherwise it’s great. I really, really enjoy it. And, I’m a huge fan. So that’s that then I want to start giving updates on this goal. Cause it’ll hold me accountable to trying to get a 500 pound back squat and five minutes or less mile really sub five minute mile is the, the goal.
but I found out running, I did my [00:11:00] first track workout to try and like times and stuff. If I was doing just like warm miles and then 400 meter splits and stuff. Yeah. And my watch was telling me my Garmin was telling me when I would finish my fourth lap, that I wasn’t at a mile yet. And I’d be like, and I run a little bit further until it said, I hit a mile and I’d be like, what?
What’s wrong with this thing? And then my immediate thought was, okay, garment sucks. You know, you don’t know what a mile is. I’m on a quarter mile track. I ran four laps that’s mile shut up Garmin. And then, so I decided to just Google it real quick. Didn’t know this, I ran track in high school. I didn’t know this a mile is 1,609 meters, not four laps at 1,609 meters, not 1600 meters.
So not four laps. So that’s even, that’s just more discouraging for this mile project that I’m pursuing, because I actually have to run a little bit further. It’s only a couple of seconds, but when you’re trying [00:12:00] to go sub five, a couple of seconds is a huge fricking deal. So anyway, that’s how I found out the how long ago, quarter mile track actually is and how long a mile actually is.
So, yeah, that’s, that’s that, I’ve tested back. Squat hit for 10, probably could go a little bit heavier. So officially I’m 90 pounds out from 500, maybe 85, 80 pounds out. If I, if I truly did a true max, I didn’t do it cause I didn’t have a, I didn’t feel safe with the. Safety equipment I had and I’ll be testing the mile this week.
Haven’t tested it for my official time yet. I’m hoping, I’m hoping it’s just under six. If I had to guess, just with like recent runs and everything, I think I’ll, it’ll be just under six, maybe somewhere between five 50 and six, if I had to guess, but I’ll update everyone on that. The next time around
Ashley Hicks: looking forward to it a real quick Apple watch, just finally put a sleep.
Like their own sleep stuff on. Yeah.
Jerred Moon: I heard that. Yeah. Have you used it?
Ashley Hicks: So I just have, for [00:13:00] the past two nights, I’m going to look at it after the week, but, yeah. So I’m just going to do it for the week and see how accurate it is or whatnot.
Jerred Moon: And so since we get questions about wearables all the time, someone might be like, well, do I officially recommend garment over everything?
I think Apple watch will stay at the top of my recommendation for most athletes because of how easy it is to use. And the accuracy is really good. I just, I feel like Garmin, we talked about this a little bit. Last time, the learning curve is super steep, which I think would piss enough people off to not use it anymore.
or to not use some of the features necessary to make it as good as it can be. so I think, I still think Apple watch. It’s not like when I, I changed device, I dislike something previous. Like they all serve a purpose. but if you want onscreen readings of your performance woops out or rings out, and so then it comes down to Apple watch and garment and they’re both, they’re both really good.
Joe Courtney: Yeah, I love all the [00:14:00] day. Just screens you can do with it. It’s pretty awesome. And then you can even download new ones, like I’ve did a zone, heart rate zone, one that I have on my run. It’s
Jerred Moon: pretty cool. Yeah. And then I don’t even know, like some of these features, like I’ll just be running and it’ll be like, your performance level is six and I’m like, what does that mean?
VD: That means you gotta go faster.
Jerred Moon: No. It’s good. It’s saying that’s good. Like,
Joe Courtney: no, this is like the top score. Six or seven.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know what the, I don’t know. I don’t even know what it’s scored off of. That’s just what it gave me on my last run. I was like, well, thank you, Carmen. So anyway, let’s get to the study.
This one is actually, yeah. Completely, serving because I’m about to do a year of squatting, a lot of squatting. And so this is, it was a study from 2019, it’s called acute effects of knee wraps or sleeves on kinetics, kinematics, and muscle forces during the barbell back squat. So what they had, 15 men with at least two years of back squatting experience, but no experience using knee wraps, participated.
[00:15:00] And they did a lot of, they measured a lot, so I’m not even gonna go into it. it was pretty cool. The things that they. Do, w like they, this eight camera motion analysis system, they looked at ground reaction forces using a force platform and muscle foreseeing forces using Musk, musculoskeletal modeling techniques.
and they looked at all these different parameters just to read off a few concentric duration, Peak sheer knee force, construct, concentric, hamstring force, all the different muscle groups. And they looked at a lot of different things to try and find out, what. The effects were and they had, what was it?
It was a control group of nothing. So they were nothing on their knees. They had knee sleeves and then they had competition, knee wraps in training, knee wraps, and real quick on the difference between knee wraps and knee sleeves, just for everyone’s aware, a knee wrap. You just think of it like a really sophisticated ACE [00:16:00] bandage.
you really just, you’re wrapping your knee in a very tight fashion with these pretty thick, knee wraps. A lot of powerlifters use them, for competitions. And it does add a little bit to your squat, but we’ll talk about some of the pros and cons of knee wraps, knee sleeves. If you’ve ever seen these, there are a bunch of different types out there.
Re band is a very popular one. they’re just neoprene sleeves that are sleeps, that you’ve put them on kind of like a sock and they go around your, your knee. And yeah, their compression helps with blood flow recovery, things like that. And then everyone knows what nothing is. That’s how most of us, most of the time RA RA.
Yeah. So that’s that are the different, what they tested. They were just really trying to look and see what the pros and cons of wearing all of these or not wearing any of these things were. so I’m just gonna, before we get into the overall findings, I mean, you guys, what’d you think of the study and then some of the results.
Ashley Hicks: So I didn’t know, there was a difference [00:17:00] between competition, knee wraps and training. Knee wraps too. I didn’t know. There was such a thing. but they also said that the guys that they, tested, totaled them what their one rep max was too. That they didn’t test it. So I don’t know how I feel about, I mean, whatever, hopefully everybody was honest or whatnot.
Cause I feel they based it off of what they said, their one rep max was, and then did 70% off of that. but to me it just, it just kind of proved to me that if you are using something. Or just don’t be dependent on the equipment, I guess, is what I found with this. I would rather use a knee sleeve knee sleeves showed to be, have more comfort, as well as it just did better than the knee wraps did.
And then nothing. [00:18:00] There was, I mean, the velocity of nothing was. Almost the same as having something else. So you want to be powerful when you’re lifting. but that’s my takeaway from it just, you know, wear something maybe when you’re maxing out or going heavy, but don’t be dependent on like knee sleeves or knee wraps or whatever you choose to use.
Jerred Moon: And I will mention just some of the takeaways, So I’m just going to read it off here. The study showed that muscle forces of the quads, hamstrings, glutes, and calves were lower when using knee wraps versus knee sleeves or bare knees during squats. knee sleeves had lower muscle forces than nothing for the calves with similar muscle forces for the quads and hamstrings and glutes.
knee sleeves don’t have any downside, but they, a lot of the athletes reported improved comfort instability during the squat. the big thing was, regular use of knee wraps. 10, it looked like it would hurt muscle growth or hypertrophy if you continue to use them for long periods of time, every training session, just but, basically with how [00:19:00] it was affecting the, the actual, how the muscles, produced force and everything else.
So your, it could hurt your muscle growth. And as Ashley saying, become a crutch and ultimately hinder your training, if you’re using. Me raps specifically all the time. Me sleeves, not as big of a deal, it seems like they’re okay to wear and don’t affect that much. Well, nothing is nothing.
VD: Yeah, it got me thinking a little bit too, is like if it’s a lower force exerted on the quad hamstring, gluten Kaz will that lead to less soreness.
Less muscle damage.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. Which can be good and bad. Right. and that’s kinda what we’re talking about before the podcast is less force. cause Ashley pointed that out to us in one of the charts before we started recording. And I was kinda saying like, that can be good or bad. It depends like, just take my, like, I’m going to be squatting three times a week.
I want less force. On my knees, and muscles in general, since I’m squatting [00:20:00] so many times, but if you’re squatting once a week or once every 10 days, then maybe you want to tear them off as much as you can, muscle muscle wise, before your next training session
VD: just don’t work in a building with stairs.
Jerred Moon: There you go.
Joe Courtney: I think the knee sleeves, how I kind of took it was cause they took subjective measures as well. And how like. comfort felt and they felt like it was more stable. The, there they were testing so easily. It could be a placebo to some people as well. If it makes you feel better, but also it shouldn’t be used that much.
So maybe when you’re doing dynamic efforts, you need to be exposed. So then increase your velocity because the velocity did. Help some, and you want to be nice and stable for those, or you’re lifting like 90 some percent above. kinda just like how we recommend with wearing a belt. Typically we don’t recommend only wearing a belt when you’re lifting above 80%.
You shouldn’t need or wear a belt when you’re below 80% because you don’t, you, you need to be able to stabilize this stuff on your [00:21:00] own. My secretary needs to leave. you should, you should most lifting. You shouldn’t need Nestle’s or BA or a raps while you’re doing that, it should only be four. If you really need to be trained velocity or, getting up to those higher weights, testing and stuff like that.
Jerred Moon: Yeah,
VD: I think to go along with that, I’m sorry. along with that, there was a mention about hypertrophy in there. You get more hypertrophy hypertrophy with no rats or, the knee sleeves, since those seem to not really have an effect either way. and then when you do wrap, it should only be on higher loads kind of to your point, Joe, about when you’re going for that.
90%, maybe that new PR that you would wrap or use your sleeves during that point. But if you’re just trying to build muscle, or just be stronger than you should probably go without reps. And it talks about that a little bit in the study as well.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. And I think knee sleeves, I think there should be a little bit more designation there because. I think those rebound [00:22:00] three millimeter neoprene sleeves that you get, do almost nothing. I mean they, other than they are compression, we’ve talked about compression on the podcast before there are benefits to that, increased blood flow, reduction in inflammation, things like that.
But I’m talking about the. Using them during the squat. I don’t think that they helped very much at all. the only thing that they could possibly help. And I’m talking about a three millimeters, so these are relatively thin. They’re the ones a lot of people use, is it mentioned here somewhere, you know, proprioception.
So it’s almost like a cue, like having a coach being like queuing you that you’re moving in the right position. Cause if you were to get kind of out of line, while wearing, these neoprene knee sleeves, they, you would know it because they bend in a very, they bend one way. So if you’re like, it’s going to get uncomfortable, if it starts bending another way and that’s also not good for your knee.
so that that’s one good thing, but the ones that. I don’t know if they talked about specifically, but they’re typically seven millimeter neoprene, knee sleeves. Pretty sure that’s what they were utilizing here. The seven [00:23:00] millimeter once re rebound makes seven millimeter. Well, just, most people don’t use them.
They’re super thick. They’re really only for lifting. You wouldn’t have fun doing, Other exercises or Metcons or whatever in these, they’re pretty thick. So there are different kinds that you can, you can look at. and for like the, the ones that are three millimeter, if you want those to like work for you, you actually need to wear them.
Like, post-training like, even when you’re just chilling on the couch or whatever, there’s really good recovery tool, more so than a person tool. the seven millimeter are kind of. It’s both. It can, you could wear it as a recovery tool, but also it’s going to help you a little bit in the lift. Now, me personally, like I said, this, this study was kind of self serving.
we’ll will be wearing knee sleeves almost every day. I squat, moving forward. Cause I’m gonna be squatting three times a week and that’s different than how it’s been. Alright, let’s just say last five years. I, I never have anything on my knees when I, when I squat, but I’m not squatting three times per week heavy.
And so the big reason I was looking at this, cause I know I don’t want to wear a knee wraps. [00:24:00] Also if I were knee wraps and squatted 500 pounds, someone’s going to say I’m cheating. but knee sleeves, are just going to help me stay stable, and increase my recovery time for. Being able to squat again within 48 hours.
So I will be wearing knee sleeves almost every time I go walk to the bar bell. and I wanted to make sure I look, you know, looking at some of the science, that’s not going to have any negative longterm effects like me raps. Wouldn’t it doesn’t look like knee sleeves are going to have anything like that.
So, I’ll be wearing these sleeves, which is new. I don’t normally do that and I’ll be wearing them a lot over the next year. So yeah. Any other takeaways or comments you guys have?
VD: Yeah. So for those joining you on the BCT track, what sleeves are you specifically using? What would you recommend if others decide to do the sleeves as well?
Jerred Moon: Yeah, so I’m using, SBD sleeves, very popular, brand. I believe I got that right.
VD: the same ones from the study.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. So I actually have those S I do have some rebounds. Like I mentioned, I have just a three millimeter rebounds, but like I said, they’re not going to do anything for. [00:25:00] the actual squad itself.
so yeah, I’ll be using some seven millimeter thick SBD ones, and those are probably like the most highly rated amongst powerlifters and they’re approved and like all the powerlifting, federations and associations and Olympic weightlifting ones as well. So they’re, they’re illegal. and the reason that matters is because like, if I were to put on some gear, I could probably squat 500 pounds today or in 12 weeks.
What I say, I bet you won’t, but I won’t. Yeah. I mean, I’m talking about the full squat suits with like knee wraps and all that stuff. It adds a lot. I’ve used this stuff before. I’ve never done competition, but my. My buddy used to be a powerlifter. And I was like, dude, what? You put all this on. So I’ve tried squatting in that stuff and it, it helps a lot.
It adds a lot to your, your squat and everything. That’s why they have geared in non geared competition. because it’s just different. Like it’s just completely different. but I don’t plan on doing any of those things, for me. So I wearing these leaves that are just [00:26:00] going to keep me safe during all the volume that we’re putting in.
It’s something I’m pursuing
Joe Courtney: other than rollerblades. There’s no deer that will get you sub five minute mile.
Jerred Moon: Nope. Just, just the garment. The garment will help.
VD: Yeah. So when you’re really trying to say is if you want to squat 500 pounds, but you don’t want to do this track for a year, just buy all the gear and do it next week and then save yourself,
Jerred Moon: you know, 51 weeks of training.
Yeah. Got it. Yeah. But the run, I don’t care that much about squatting 500 pounds. I care about squatting 500 pounds with a five minute mile.
VD: Yeah. That’s the part you can’t cheat,
Jerred Moon: dude. So just talk about that for one second. I have a huge hole to climb out of. Oh, like, I don’t know. I’m super, like, we’ll see, we’ll see what happens.
That’s why I’m committing to doing the training for a year. This is probably the least confident I’ve ever been walking into a physical challenge of whether or not I can even actually do it. So. Well,
VD: here’s the gauntlet. So, so I did [00:27:00] a, so this is fit week as we’re recording right now, I ran my mile in five 44.
So you gotta beat me
Jerred Moon: here. Yeah. And then in a year, I need to beat you by 45 seconds
VD: or I can beat you by 46
Jerred Moon: dude. Do it. I would love, I would love to someone push me on this mile. It’s going to be, it’s going to be insane.
VD: I catch you on the squat. I’m too far off, but. The mile I can push you on
Jerred Moon: that. Well, I told you guys, I ran at the track.
I did 400 meter repeats and I did too. I, I, I ended up doing six total, but I did two that would have been at a sub five minute mile pace. So I finished in like a minute, eight and a minute 12 on my first two. And then after that I was pretty much spent. So that was really discouraging as well. I mean, I went to one 20 for the, my last four.
But that’s one 20 is not going to cut it. It’s gotta be one 15 or less every single time. So it’s, it’s fast. It’s really moving. Hmm. All right. So [00:28:00] what are we talking about, Joe?
Joe Courtney: It’s tracks how you pick, how we pick our tracks, what tracks we’re picking, what the process is that we go through to pick our tracks, the logic, the thought process, all the athletes, do their Hammond and hotline in the group.
And they’re debating and FOMO is and stuff. And then, Our own actually takes about three weeks, has our own vision board, looking like one of those dark boards with the string going to connecting and all that stuff.
Jerred Moon: So she’s trying to solve a murder.
Joe Courtney: Exactly. What is,
Jerred Moon: where do I want to be? Where am I now?
Hey, that’s good. So, Maybe Ashley should go first. And she has the most elaborate and process. According to Joe,
Ashley Hicks: it’s not elaborate. It’s more like I even said to my notes. I was like, I know I’m annoying, but I still persist. So it’s, it’s nice. The best part too, about the Slack channel is if I talk too much, the guys just ignore me.
So they just don’t even answer my questions. [00:29:00] But, So for fit week, for me, it just depends like, what goal do I have? Right. So, for a while with Connor, I just wanted to kind of shred some baby wakes. So I was on shred for awhile. and then I also. Love harder to kill Carter. The Kilz always been my favorite.
I’ve never done strengths and I haven’t done endure. so I can’t really speak to that. So it’s always harder to kill or shred, I guess, but I like to figure out what people are programming. So, you know, we did body geometry a while back and whatnot. so then I’ll just ask the coaches, which is kind of the perks of the job.
Like, Hey, you know, what is what’s going on this 12 weeks? Like, can I kind of see some sample programming before the sample programming is released? And then I go back and forth. And then I also, I’m competitive. I’ve always been competitive. So I like it too. If there’s a lot of people. In the coaching group, like, Hey, we’re [00:30:00] mostly going to do harder to kill.
And then we like to post our times and do that too. And kind of talk some smack and trash. Cause it makes us makes it more fun. So I’ll lean towards that too. Like if most people are going to do a certain track, then I’m like, okay, I’ll do that. But, yeah, I think I maybe need to get out of the box a little bit.
Maybe do some interior or. I don’t, I don’t know if I’ll ever just do strength.
Jerred Moon: there’ll be a CT. You’re not coming over.
Ashley Hicks: No. Oh, I saw, I saw your five mile run. I can run five miles without stopping, but it probably close to an hour for me. Maybe 50 minutes. I did my mile today and my miles at eight 24.
So yeah, I dunno. It just depends. But yeah, no, BCT, for me, it’ll probably be harder to kill. I like harder to kill because I like the, I like the strength conditioning of it, but yeah, I also love the conditioning that’s programming within it. Like, it’s my I’m I’m that weirdo [00:31:00] that loves like the 30 minutes as many rounds as possible of whatever.
Like that’s, those are my jam. That’s my favorite. And I just put on some good music and go kind of thing. So.
Jerred Moon: Oh, there it is folks, Joe, you haven’t been on a track and like
Ashley Hicks: it’s Joe’s track
Jerred Moon: a year. So can you even recall what your decision process was
Joe Courtney: to just delete the team builder from my phone? Yeah. So, I mean, in the past, I was just, you know, hard to kill for three years. It was super easy for me. I just didn’t leave.
that, that, that, that’s my advice. Just pick a track and just stick with it. Just pick hard to kill for life. That’s it. and then, but I knew I was going to get limited. Equipment. And so getting down to how, how for picking tracks it’s been this week or this year, I guess, is like knowing what your schedule is coming up.
So if you have traveling coming up or you’re moving or things [00:32:00] are getting, you know, worked on your house or whatever, think about what you’re going to be able to accomplish. Best and even knowing some of your obstacles coming out, what’s, you’re going to be able to enjoyably get past and work around. So for this year I knew Indira was going to be the easiest because at least two of the days per week, two or three were conditioning and running.
So I knew I could do that because I can just go run or, No, there’s a little bit of equipment in their head for cardio equipment, but yeah, I mostly just run. And then from there it was body geo days for supersets and that’s when I had to get somewhat creative with those days. But it was just, I was mostly just worried about one day a per week that I had to really improvise and think about what was going on.
So that was why I did and deer for awhile. And I did start to like it, and I really liked the, how those were looking for. I liked the days where. I have a mindset of, okay, this is a running day. I’m only running today, or this is a lifting day. I’m only lifting today instead of going back and forth of like, I mean, even though it’s, that does happen in a hard to kill a lot, which was [00:33:00] fun for variety and stuff.
It was just how I was, since I had so much variability and such in my schedule and like just staying, sleeping on a couch and whatnot. I like to have. A mindset of I’m just doing this today and then I’m just doing this tomorrow versus switching back and forth.
Jerred Moon: No it’s tracked. Does that really well now
Joe Courtney: basically
Jerred Moon: just say,
Joe Courtney: I know I saw it’s it’s it’s the seed is planted, but I’m getting there.
but since I haven’t touched a barbell besides the one day, that one Oh one magical day at charity house, since the beginning of March, I know that I need to, get back into the strength stuff and I just want to touch a barbell for awhile. I just, just want to, yeah. So I’m going to do
Ashley Hicks: track.
Joe Courtney: Yes, I think so.
No, I’m still, I’m still listening to a. It’s still listened to. If anybody, you know, send me your representatives from each track and try and distribute to your side, you [00:34:00] know, I’m always hearing negotiations, but I think once we ever, you know, get out of the hotels and get into a gym, I’m going to go to strength, track, because I can do four days of strength, but I’m still gonna run.
I’m still gonna have my run days, like in deer. So I’m still gonna, I still like to have my interval days that I’m doing for my running. or just longer zone to run days. I still like to have those in there. So yeah, I’ll still get plenty of conditioning that I’m going to add on to strength, but I just know, I need to build my strength back up and get back on the strength horse and then maybe 20, 21.
We’ll see what BCT is like and how feeling when I’m already, you know, back to barbell adapted. So that’s been my 20, 20 logic and process of how I’ve gone through it.
Ashley Hicks: I would be so proud of you.
Joe Courtney: Yeah. And shed a tear. It’s usually once, at least once per year, we all kind of come together and like do hard to kill together.
She’s always been hard to kill and we just like once like a hard to kill together, then just flee to [00:35:00] our own corners.
yeah, so maybe that’ll be the BCT
Jerred Moon: everyone’s on the BCT track
Joe Courtney: 2021.
Jerred Moon: We’ll see Kyle’s doing it. He’s not here. So I can be as a representative, he messaged me yesterday, said he’s going to go.
BCT really nice. Yeah.
Ashley Hicks: Yeah. And then this is when it gets me to think and I get FOMO and I’m like, Oh, cool.
Joe Courtney: The vision board is in a trashcan. She’s going to
VD: be changing.
Jerred Moon: From an athlete perspective. I know Trampas is doing it. Ryan Caswell will be on it. a couple other people have reached out, so we’ll see.
and just so everyone knows, we’re talking about the BCT track. It stands for boring, boring, concurrent training. It’s the track I’ll be following for a year to be, to see how high I can get my dead lift and how fast I can get my mile. but they’re like, I think I posted yesterday seven prerequisites before you’re allowed to join the track.
So if you’re going to message and if you want to join, There it’s as kind of like a by invitation [00:36:00] only type track at garage gym athlete just you’d have to have some other things, but I just want anybody to get hurt. That’s the main thing. I don’t want someone who’s been working out for, you know, they took the last three years off.
They’d been in a program for six weeks and they’re like, well, big squat and fast mile time. Sounds awesome. Yeah. This isn’t attract for you. so anyway, that’s the BCT track. I feel like we’ve been mentioning it without mentioning it. PD. How do you pick?
VD: I kinda like, I program a lot. Right. So I kind of program what I like to do.
And so for me lately, it’s kind of been shred track just because it’s in my wheelhouse and it’s like, it’s how I like to train. It keeps me healthy and, and. meets my goals. So I’ve never like, actually I’ve never been on the stretch track. I tried to endure when I was going to do this adventure race.
It’s like this, 36 hour, climbing mountains, rowing in a canoe and all this crazy stuff. And then covert canceled that. So I was like, see ya [00:37:00] endure.
Joe Courtney: I want to do one.
VD: Yeah, I did too, and paid and everything, and then we get hose, Tommy, we get hosed. but yeah, so I immediately jumped back on shred check because that’s what I like to do.
but before I was a coach, I was hard to kill for life, because it was the closest to what. how I like to train. So it’s pretty simple for me. I know what my goals are. I stay at competitor level. So outside of that, I don’t really feel like I need to get stronger or I don’t feel a need to be faster than I am or anything like that.
So I just do what I like. And for the time being, I really kinda just, just stick to shred.
Jerred Moon: I, I’ve only been on two tracks and it’s primarily hard to kill. And then I think I’ve been on a juror once or twice, maybe twice. Yeah. So most of the time it’s hard to kill kind of like VD. if I was just programming for myself, It would be hard to kill [00:38:00] programming. it might just look a little bit different, since I am programming for so many athletes, when I do program hard to kill, I, I take that into consideration, but, yeah, hard to kill.
I do kind of go based on goal. I really have enjoyed cycling, which I’m gonna almost have to give up over the next year. I’ll do a little bit of it here and there, but I need to be running way more than I am cycling. Cause I found out. In one of my updates podcast or two ago, if you only cycle, you start to suck at running.
So that’s unfortunate. So I kind of go based off of, what I want to do. Like the reason I went the end year, the times that I did, either the, I had a bike race coming up, or I just went, I wanted to ride my bike more. Like I want it to be outside riding right bike. so maybe that seasoned dependent, but.
What I enjoy most, if I am like in a gym setting would be hard to kill just because of the, it’s just varied enough to constantly keep your attention, without being random. And that’s the whole point of the hard to kill track. [00:39:00] and that’s why I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed knowing I’m going to hit.
All these different energy systems and just everything that’s in it. So I normally, I would say, I guess I picked based off of season than enjoyment. that’s what I seem to have done in the past, C strength track. I don’t think I’ll ever do strength track because. I found out a lot. I, I, I feel like I was on the strength track for like five years before we had a strength track, which is great.
I got really strong, but, I, it, there was such a mess major hole in my aerobic conditioning that I don’t want to ever do that again. And so that’s what will happen if you’re on the straight track, by the way, for years on end, because we don’t program very much long aerobic endurance. And most people were cool with that.
Cause we’ve, we programmed just enough for you to be healthy and functional, but no, do anything long, but I enjoy I’m starting enjoy endurance more as I. as I age, I, I just really like cycling. and
Joe Courtney: that’s what I imagined it [00:40:00] on to when I do strength on like Thursdays or Saturdays and stuff doing a longer or longer intervals, or just like, you know, three to five mile run or whatever like that.
So I can, so I can keep, because all the running that I’ve been doing, the share, I’d like to keep.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. So I I’d say, you know, look at your goals and then reverse engineer, what activities you enjoy doing if you have, I always say, if you kind of have that fitness add, which a lot of people do, I think hard to kill track is going to be the best track, just because of how, how many different things we do every 30 days.
It’ll definitely keep your interest. and. Like I’m, I’m literally, it has boring in the name boring. It’s going to just be mindless activity every single week, but you know, it’s what needs to be done. So definitely won’t be servicing my fitness add there. Yeah, I’m sure.
VD: I’m sure we’re still going to get questions about, Hey, what track do I need to be on?
And I think probably the best way to answer that is determine where you are, find out where you want to go and then [00:41:00] fill the gap with whatever track that we have.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. Because they are all programmed for those kinds of the people who say, I don’t really have a goal. I will go. You should probably go hard to kill.
Because we’re just GPB. Let’s keep you, let’s get you straight and fitter on a low, on a slower timeline. And then I look at all, the other tracks is accelerating that timeline for if you have a goal. So if you’re like, no, I want to get stronger right now. Hard to coatrack. We’ll get you stronger, but it won’t get you as strong in a shorter time periods of good strength.
If you want to build some muscle cuts and fat go shred, it’ll do it faster than hard to kill it, do it. so the programming is meant to do those things, but if you just like, I don’t have a goal, I just want to exercise, hard to go do it, but, let’s, let’s get to the yourself Saturday. I’m not gonna, I’m not going to call an audible.
I’ll do what was, what was planned. So 60 minute run for max meters. I briefed it. It’s over. it’s so funny. I love [00:42:00] this video, the, the brief, because we post these on YouTube, right? And like, people will like comment, whatever. And this is, this one has the most thumbs down. On YouTube. And I don’t think it’s angry people who just randomly found this video.
It’s our athletes giving us thumbs down on YouTube, which is mean by the way. it’s not good for YouTube. anyway has the most thumbs down and we don’t program it that regularly. So 60 minute run tips, tricks, pointers. What do you guys have?
Joe Courtney: I believe it’s called jogging or move. That’s the
Jerred Moon: soft. Yeah,
Ashley Hicks: it’s a silent Y
Joe Courtney: yeah.
It’s supposed to be wild, pacing. Hey,
Jerred Moon: you went in today.
Joe Courtney: Yep. That’s
VD: it. Whatever you choose. Go 80% and
Jerred Moon: call it. Good.
Joe Courtney: Make sure you warm up your calves and your ankles. Kelly’s
Jerred Moon: okay. Yeah. Jump up, do a little jump rope before you start.
Joe Courtney: Yeah, [00:43:00] hopefully you’re hydrated the day before
Ashley Hicks: don’t wear Metcons. Rare running shoes.
Jerred Moon: we’re running. I agree.
Joe Courtney: Oh, Ashley, what are you listening to?
Ashley Hicks: EDM electronic dance music.
Jerred Moon: Well, audio book for a 60 minute run.
Ashley Hicks: No, cause then you go slow. Like you need something to keep you like, maybe you won’t, but
VD: I would she’s in the zone and it keeps you pacing at 80% autobiographies
Jerred Moon: Winston Churchill
Joe Courtney: probably go 80%.
Yeah. I need some electronic stuff. If I’m just like running, then I can do like a podcast.
Ashley Hicks: Yeah. I’m probably more like Martin Garrix or Testo. So for those who need a Spotify or Pandora, whatever.
Jerred Moon: Yeah. So running is hard. I will say this. These are some tips for athletes. If you feel like you can handle a 60 minute run without stopping, that’s my challenge to you.
[00:44:00] And no walking or anything. See, that would be my first challenge. My ultimate, Hey, I don’t care how fast you’re running. See if you can go an entire 60 minutes without walking. That is going to be challenging for a lot of people. If you’re not in that boat, you’re not ready for that. And you still want to push yourself with a 60 minute run.
Then, try and hit it certain mile or certain markers and time for you allow yourself to walk because this is so I’m getting tired. I feel like I should walk. Walk is a slippery slope. So say that. Okay. At every 10 minute, Mark, I’m allowed to walk for one minute or something, make a rule around the walking.
If you’re going to walk. And then if you’re super beginner athlete, Then just do what you can, you know, maybe do a minute of jogging a minute of walking for the entire 60 minutes. That makes it way more mentally engaging if you do it more as an interval. so those would be kind of my different levels, how I want people to push themselves, whether that’s every 10 minutes you allow yourself to walk or 15 or 20.
and then the ultimate just being don’t stop. That’s my, the [00:45:00] main thing I have for you don’t stop running. Even if it’s slow, like go as slow as you can shuffle. It’s basically a walk, but it still looks like a run. Just do that at least and build some mental toughness in the process. And anything else that you guys have for 60 minute run for max meters?
Give you a good luck,
Joe Courtney: not repeating any of that.
Jerred Moon: All right. Well, this is the end all, and today, the day this is published is the day of the new cycle. So welcome all of our current athletes. Do the new cycle of training. Hopefully you’re on the track that you want to be on. If not, you have a shot to do attract change right now. last minute track changes are the best.
So just go ahead and submit those, those track changes. Make sure you’re on the track that you want to be on to meet your goal. Right. For anyone who has been thinking about it, you’re on the fence. Go to [00:46:00] Grazia matthew.com. Sign up for 14 day trial, right after you sign up, you’ll be able to select your track and we’ll make sure you’re on the right track to get started.
A while. I think joining at any time is okay and acceptable. This is definitely the best time. If you want to start fresh and see what an entire 12 weeks of our training can do for you. So do it join at dot com, but that’s it. That’s all I have for today. Peace. Thanks for listening to the garage gym athlete podcast.
Do you want to learn more? Go to garage, gym athlete.com. You can learn about our training. Let us send you a copy of our book, the garage, the mathlete, or you can even get featured on the garage gym athlete podcast. Thanks for listening.