Hey, Athletes! Do you carb load before a training session or do you train fasted? This week’s episode is all about how to FUEL your body before a session!
Episode 109 of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up!
Fuel For Workouts and Sleep Aids
On this week’s episode Jerred, Ashley, Kyle, and Trampis are on! The team goes over a study that gives insight on whether or not you need carbs before a workout. They go over their applications and takeaways for this one and give you advice on how to Kill Comfort! The topic for this week is an AMA. Stephen asks about supplementation via fish oil and ZMA. The team gave their best answers for this and some good tips on supplementation. Lastly, this week’s Meet Yourself Saturday workout is Clean Breathing. Make sure to pick up some tips and tricks for this one!
If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast either on Stitcher, iTunes, or Google Play by using the link below:
IN THIS 61-MINUTE EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
- Carbs Before Training
- FUELS Course
- Trampis Joins the Team
- Clean Breathing
- Fish Oil and ZMA
- Tips For MYS
- Updates and Announcements
- And A LOT MORE!!
If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here are some links for you:
Study of the Week
- Pre-Exercise Carbohydrate or Protein Ingestion Influences Substrate Oxidation but Not Performance or Hunger Compared with Cycling in the Fasted State
Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week
Be sure to listen to this week’s episode:
Related Resources at End of Three Fitness:
Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!
To becoming better!
Jerred Moon 00:03
Alright ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage mathlete podcast Jerred. Moon here with pretty much everybody. We have Kyle we have Ashley. No, no Joe trampas is here. What’s up Travis? How’s it going? How’s it going? Yeah, Joe, the new Joe. slowly going to just phase Joe out in trampas is going to be coming in.
So take over all Joe’s responsibilities over the next way you don’t want that. Good luck.
Kyle Shrum 00:35
Let’s, let’s slow down on that one.
Jerred Moon 00:38
But welcome Travis Travis has been on the podcast multiple times as an athlete, he’s now here as a coach and a part of the team. If you didn’t know we have announced it multiple places. Travis is on the team really helping out with the garage team athlete merchandise and products and all those things. Which you should definitely go check out at garage mathlete.com there’s a store in the main menu. Oh, there you go. He’s just sipping on from a mug he made so a lot of great stuff. He’s really increased our offerings and it’s some really cool stuff new logos new designs my personal favorite new one is the daily over decades shirt. If the community hasn’t seen that, I think it’s it’s awesome. And it’s super soft, super soft too. But we should probably get into it. Welcome trampas so that was your official welcome. So you get though we’ll get a good get into the study we’ll go straight to I don’t know something I love it’s it’s kind of its fuels its its energy systems, its substrates, ie being used in oxidized in in performance setting. And so the actual name of the study is pre exercise carbohydrate or protein ingestion influences substrate oxidation, but not performance or hunger compared with cycling in fasted in the fasted state. This was done the study was done in 2021. So let me I have a lot of notes on this one mainly because it’s I just love talking about these things. I look at a lot of studies like this, this is one of my more wheelhouse areas, but I’ll just kind of try and hit the highlights before we get to the team. So 17 male cyclists and triathletes participate in the study. They’re between the ages of 18 and 55 years old trained at least eight hours per week for the two preceding years and had a view to max of above 55 it’s pretty solid vo two max if you’re not familiar with vo tak vo two max numbers. participants were asked how often they typically exercise in the overnight fasted state 59% said rarely or never 18% said one to two times per week and 24% said more than two times per week. So that’s the who the big reason why I’ll pull straight from this the study to determine the effects of three different pre exercise nutrition strategies on substrate oxidation. So substrate oxidation is just the form of let’s say macro a nutrient that was burned oxidation is typically like burn like fat oxidation is fat burn performance during high intensity interval training and exercise induced oxidative stress. They also looked at the effects of pre exercise feeding strategies on some secondary outcomes including hunger and gastrointestinal comfort before and after exercise in addition to cycling, gross efficiency heart rate and rating of perceived exertion RP during cycling exercise I don’t have a lot of notes on the back half of those things if any of you do that cool but I mainly focused on looking at the substrate utilization now trying to round this out. I they did four or five minutes submaximal cycling stages at increasing intensities. And then they did what was it like six three minute bouts and they had to have maintained 80% of peak power and then the last couple were all out right overall a really solid cycling workout I’ve done workouts like this on my herb before so this is just a this would have been a tough workout that they’re running everyone through everyone acted as their own control. So they either had to do high protein high carb and water or water Yeah, and that’s about all I’m gonna get into because I just I keep talking about the ins and outs of this but what they were just looking at they were looking at high protein, they’re looking at high carbohydrate and like how these things and fast and they were looking at how they how your body use different substrates I feel like the conclusion is super obvious but from the study says overall exercising in the over night fasted state increased fat oxidation during submaximal exercise compared with exercise following a carbohydrate rich breakfast and pre exercise protein and ingestion allows similarly high levels of fat oxidation. There are no difference in perceived exertion, hunger or performance. And we provide novel data showing no influence of pre exercise nutrition, ingestion on exercise induced oxidative stress. Okay, let’s just start unpacking that. Whoever wants to go first, we can start diving into the nuances of the study.
Ashley Hicks 05:23
So it was a crossover, which just means that everybody completed all three conditions, I think, did you hit on that already? Anyways? Okay, so they had everybody do the high protein, the high carb as well as the fasted and just what Jared said, like, the results were like, pretty much the same for every single thing. So. And then I also found interesting, something that I’ll bring up before I like get into my kind of takeaways here was that they talked about how they went in, and, like, upon arrival in the lab and stuff, and they accessed like, they assessed their sleep their food, but they didn’t keep a food log. Like I found that super. I don’t know, like, where they were some like carb backloading. Have you heard of that? Like, were you like, eat a ton of carbs at night? So then that way, like, I don’t know. So
Jerred Moon 06:16
I think it matters a lot what you’re saying, because if you have high glycogen stores, I feel like a lot of this entire study is irrelevant, to be honest. And that’s something we’ll talk a little bit more. But yeah, the fact that they didn’t really, truly track that as well as they should have, I think was a miss.
Kyle Shrum 06:29
Yeah, they did. They actually did, though, they took a food log for the previous 24 hours before they came in.
Jerred Moon 06:35
Yeah, it’s just was it’s a food log, which is dependent on the
Kyle Shrum 06:38
person. It was on the right, Robert. Yeah, I get what you’re saying. The researchers weren’t tracking their food, they were dependent on each individual to track and then the accuracy of
Jerred Moon 06:47
such thing, because they might have been like, I had pasta last night, probably 50 grams, when really they had four servings, and it was like 175 grams of carbohydrate. That’s the only thing I think was a miss.
Kyle Shrum 06:56
Right? Yeah. Okay, I get it. There we go. Sorry. Anyways,
Ashley Hicks 07:00
so I felt that that would have been super important if they would have like, actually, you know, logged things in there that were you know, exactly what Jared said, like, super strict about it, I guess. But to me, this shows that there really isn’t need because I feel like a lot of people start like I will I need to have something before I workout, or you know, I need to have oatmeal is like a big thing, like I have my sister in law does the same thing. I have to have a little meal before I go. And it kind of shows that well, you might not even need the meal, like and it all depends, right? So fasted was better at burning fat. And, and I think protein was a little bit up there too. But I think what you need to do is be smart about when and what you eat. For example, they talked about the GI issues with the high protein diet, and like how people were having discomfort. And I’m like, Well, if you had a lot of protein, like it’s gonna make sense. And I think my killing comfort for this one would be, you know, like I said, be smart about when you are eating. So if your body doesn’t necessarily need a meal, and you’re just doing it just to do it. I my feeling comfort is try a trained session fasted and see what happens and see like, do you really need that extra glycogen glycogen that you’re putting in your body? Or whatever kind of meal that you’re eating prior to? You know, that would be my healing comfort? Kyle, what do you have to say?
Kyle Shrum 08:32
So no surprise here that there was more fat burn in in the fasted state, then there was in the carb state. But this is also you have to remember that there was better fat burn in the submaximal efforts. Once they started getting into the higher intensity. They obviously we know that we know, that’s how fuels works.
Jerred Moon 08:54
Kyle Shrum 08:56
we know that. And make sure the listeners know anyone who’s listened to the podcast for any length of time should know that, that that once you get into higher intensity, your body switches its fuel source over to carbs. And so since they the front, it was front loaded on the workout, the submaximal stuff, they did the submaximal stuff first. And they ended with the higher intensity stuff. And so that’s kind of where the carb burn came in at the end with the higher intensity stuff. And so that’s what we’re looking at here is there was higher fat burn in a fasted state and with a protein breakfast in submaximal efforts. So that’s what we’re looking at. And to me, this is just again, another study that just proves all the stuff that we’ve been telling you on the garage mathlete podcast like and no, we’re not just picking studies that go along with what we like and what we say. We’re just saying, This is what the science is telling us that this is, this is what what you need to be doing. And personally, I know No, I feel better when I train faster, I feel better. That’s just, that’s how I, that’s how I operate. I’ve had to kind of change my my work schedule and the way that I do things during the day to where I don’t actually get to train fasted most of the time anymore. But especially if I’m doing like, if I’m doing any kind of cardio intervals or something like running and all that kind of stuff, like, I would rather do that in the morning, not not just because of like, temperature wise, weather wise, those kinds of things, it’s cooler in the morning, feels better to do it in the morning. But if I have to run after I’ve eaten lunch, that’s gonna be a rough day. Like, it’s a rough day for me if I have to run after I’ve eaten for the day. So I try to get that kind of stuff in before before I eat during the day. But I personally just feel better. When I when I’m training, fasted, and don’t have something on my stomach, besides water, obviously, I’m drinking some water before I’ll typically drink some water during that, but I’m not drinking gallons of it before. So anyway, that’s just how I personally feel. But this was a good study. I agree. Jerry, this was a really good study, I enjoyed reading it, the way it was written was really good. explained everything very clearly attract a whole bunch of things. And but it just to me, it proves that meal timing matters, that what your training, the training session that you’re going to be doing for the day should be dictating when you eat, what you eat those kinds of things. And just be mindful of those things. I guess we’re doing our kill and comfort thing as we go now, right? Is that what we’re doing? Because that’s actually thing, my killing comfort for I wasn’t, I haven’t been on in a while. So I had to take my shot, Joe’s not here. So my killing comfort would be to intentionally pay attention, like intentionally acknowledge how you feel before, during and after your workout. So to me this is kind of part of mental toughness is training yourself to be mindful of how your body is responding to your training, how your body is responding, responding to your nutrition. So don’t just go in and do what you’ve always done. Or, you know, don’t don’t just say, Well, I just got to suck it up and move on. Like, if there are things that are happening to you. There are ways that you’re feeling. If you’re if you’re having some gut issues, like your your gut doesn’t feel good when you’re training. Maybe you need to do something different. You know what I mean? If you’re running into issues with having energy to last through the workout, maybe that’s something you need to pay attention to. Before the workout. If there’s something happening, something going on, you don’t feel good, whatever is happening, pay attention to those things. So that would be my kinnelon comfort don’t this kind of bulldoze through everything be intentional and pay attention to the signals that your body is sending you.
Jerred Moon 13:09
lovely guys doing it over to trampas at the end. That’s like hard to do. He’s the new guy. You know, and you’d like just, like, got all the points that you want to hit. And now it’s like trampas what? Good luck
Kyle Shrum 13:23
by fire man. Yeah,
Ashley Hicks 13:25
that’s the most point or points though. So I feel like he’s all right.
Jerred Moon 13:29
Yeah, I’m just sitting here trying to find out what I’m gonna say but through what’s taking
Ashley Hicks 13:35
what you’re gonna say. So we’re setting you up.
Right, well, I agree with everything. I mean, for the most part that that Ashley cow said, I mean this is so it’s sort of just reassuring. I have a very flexible schedule for when I work out sometimes it’s in the morning sometimes in the evening. And at least from a food or fuel perspective. I’m not as concerned now with however, you know, I worked out fasted the other day. Tonight I’m going to have to do it tonight. So I’m going to be I’m probably going to eat through the day. You know, just it’s kind of reassuring to know that you can still get a decent workout in or a training session in despite what you’ve eaten some some cooler things at the end of the study that I thought were some good suggestions they said for a new study I thought would be great to see would be more lifting, like lifting a specific study. But then also kind of linking back to what actually you’re saying with the food log and all that they would have them what was it it was one where they would come in completely fasted, and then they would give them like a pre workout or something like that, like a specified pre workout just to test that. But then there was also another suggestion where they would do a glycogen depleting workout, rest, come back and all but only eat like a certain meal protocol. And I guess they would track all that food and just really take all the variables out of it. So that would be cool to see. And also a little more lifting specific, not just cycling. But yeah, at the end of the day, like, like McHale said, a lot of it just comes down to your personal preference and, and how your body responds, which I noticed, it’s not a shocker for anybody that follows a GGA program and listens to everything we say. So it’s just experiment. You know, my killing color would probably be something like, let go of your bias that you’ve, you know, built up over the last four or five years of training, and see what what changes you can implement that, that you’ve been holding on to, you know, something that you just let that go to see if you can go faster. So try try eat before meal and see if you can do a little better. Yeah, they’ve only really works for about an hour though, because after that, you know, you’re going to start depleting. And you know, I was at a Spartan Race weekend, and I got depleted pretty quick. So just you got to know when you got to know when to review. That’s,
Jerred Moon 16:17
that’s a really good point that you ended on is the like, I don’t think that this stuff matters that much because of the training session that we’re at an hour. And but when we when we go beyond that this is where I think fuelling actually does become the most important and where your knowledge of such fueling practices becomes very important because if you’re just eating enough, throughout the day, you’re going to have enough glycogen which is stored carbohydrates stored in your liver, and it’s stored in your muscles, you’re just going to have enough to perform a garage gym athlete training session for an hour. So when anyone who’s only following garage gym athlete programming asks me about fueling strategies, pre workout and nutrition. I basically say it’s not that important. And that’s kind of true so long as your normal diet is adequate. Because I don’t care if you’re training fasted, I don’t care. If you’re training at night, middle of the day, you’re going to have enough stored carbohydrate in the form of glycogen to perform that training session. Anything else that you think that you feel, could be completely unrelated to nutrition. So if you’re hitting fatigue and training sessions, check your sleep, check your hydration, check your electrolytes, these are all things that are probably more important to your fatigue level than it is whether or not you had your, you know, whatever carbohydrate drink is before you work out. But to hit on what Trump said one more time, once you pass that 60 minute threshold, if it’s a fairly intense session, you might want to start thinking about how to throw more specifically carbohydrates into your diet. There are some fats that you could possibly do protein almost irrelevant as far as fueling goes so I just want to read off the amounts so people would kind of get a feel for that on the high carb day, participants consumed about one gram per kilogram of carbohydrate from bread jam, and a carbohydrate electro carbohydrate slash electrolyte beverage. On the high protein day participants consumed a calorie matched meal providing point four five grams per kilogram of protein. And point two four grams of kilogram of fat from whey protein isolate and peanut butter. So if you’re just wondering how much carbohydrate how much protein they were consuming, and ultimately from the studies, the one of the takeaways you know, the the main conclusion, it said overall exercising in the overnight fasted state increased fat oxidation during submaximal exercise compared with exercise following a carbohydrate rich breakfast. And so that is just how it works if your body one if you’re in zone two, and why we do a lot of zone two is the it loves to burn fat to oxidize fat in that intensity zone. Because we don’t really click over to carbohydrates until we get way more intense. And then once you get zone four and five, you’re looking at almost pure sugar burn and and that’s all your body is burning, especially in zone five. It’s just like, if you were to like, drop like a tablespoon or a teaspoon of sugar like on your desk for every like 10 minutes that you’re in zone five like it would show you how much sugar that you’re actually burning. But you’re a sugar burner. And I The reason I started diving into this stuff so much is because I was just getting kind of irritated with keto people who were just saying like, your body will eventually click over like eventually you’ll use it you’ll you’ll learn how to do it and that’s just not what the science supports. If you’re in these higher intensity zones. You cannot your body won’t doesn’t just oxidize fat all of a sudden In the same way that it would sugar or use it as quickly. And so it’s just not accurate and all of the stuff from keto world saying that it works perfectly and you have to wait there, these endurance athletes who spend a ridiculous amount of time in zone two and zone three to where fat oxidation is very possible. And so you can do that for long periods of time. And that’s their race day in zone three, and after their training in zone two, and then they may have just enough glycogen to support their very short high intensity bouts. So anyway, my the main takeaway I wanted for athletes, kind of two things is one match your diet to your goals. If you are wanting to burn a lot of fat, then this kind of goes along the same thing that we’ve always known zone two fasted state, you’re gonna oxidize more fat. But you don’t need to think so much of like, these direct one to one like, Okay, I’m about to work out, I have to have this thing, you know, like, it doesn’t work that way it what you need to do, and something we teach in the fuels course, is you find out what your body probably burns. And I say probably because we’re not actually testing your blood or your breath or anything like that, what your body burns based off your heart rate zones, we actually walk you through this. And then you can kind of calculate out how many carbohydrates you probably burn a session, how much fat so on and so forth. And so as long as you’re consuming that, let’s say on a daily basis, those many carbohydrates that much fat, like you will be fine. And your body will have that stored glycogen to perform the next day. And so that’s what’s most important about the fuels courses this longer term, what is your diet, how consistent are in your diet over a seven day period, or 14 over 30 days. And then that’s where it really starts to implementation of our fuel score starts to kick in, because you’re like, Okay, you’re a little bit more comfortable. Like if you’re a person who thought you can only have 75 carbohydrates, because you read that in a book somewhere, but you find out that your person who burns 150 carbohydrates, you know, and you’re starting to increase your carbohydrate intake based off of what you actually burn, you’ll get a lot further. So that is what I want athletes to take away. If you want to burn fat, go for it, if you don’t want to burn fat or burn anything else. I think pre workout meals might be really important. I know like bodybuilders, they, they will do low intensity stuff, but they want to train in a Fed state because they don’t want any possibility of tapping into that muscle and any sort of muscle wasting, you know. And my ultimate killing comfort strategy or takeaway here is spend some money, and biofuels course, because I go in depth on all the different macronutrients how they’re used, you get the fuels, thumbprint is what we call it to where you actually go through a series of energy system tests with a heart rate monitor, and we tell you, with calculators what we think you’re what you burn, and each training session, and we help you with your pre and post workout nutrition, to be able to like I said, Be consistent in that pre and post workout nutrition, not an individual Training Day. Like I said, I don’t think that matters that much. I think the pre and post workout nutrition matters over like a 30 day time period, the cumulative of that effect, because Travis mentioned a Spartan Race, he knows he knew when he ran out of glycogen, it’s like, it’s obvious. And you know, you know, when these things happen, it happens to me in cycling, almost dead on at the 60 minute mark, if I’m doing a fairly intense ride, it’s like it’s gone. And I am basically walking my bike, you know. And so these things are very obvious. But if you plan for them, you know when you need to feel. And we’re not going to just tell you all those things on the podcast is an educational course, that you can really go and I know it’s very self serving for our company. But hey, we didn’t just put together to make money, we put it together to teach you what the hell that you you should be doing with your fueling strategy. So if you want to take the fuel scores, you can do that. Go to in through fitness, comm and sign up for it. But that is my killing comfort, spend some money and get smarter with it. Alright, and I could talk about this all day. I love. I love fuels. I love how it works. And the main reason I’m always looking at this stuff is because it could change like science changes, the information changes. This just confirms what we have been talking about the whole time. And if anything ever changes from what I think I’ll let people know, but so far, we’re pretty spot on with how the different fuels are used at the given intensities. And this doesn’t change any of my thoughts on that. It’s just more in line with with those things. Cool. Let’s get into the topic, unless anybody has anything else. Nope. All right. So this is kind of an AMA we are going to start moving the occasional ama as the topic here. So we’re answering athlete questions. We’re hovering more about around sleep supplementation on this one. And yeah, I’ll read the question, but if you do have a question, go to garage mathlete comm slash ama, and you could submit a question to us at any time. And we are going to start picking up more and more of these on the panel. Cast here kind of in this topic segment, as we get here. So from Steven said, Hi guys, I just listened to the supplementation webinar, pause. If you didn’t know, if you’re not a garage, gym athlete or you are the apps great is where you get all your workouts. If you log into the site, what is not part of the app? I know it’s confusing, we can do anything about it. You have a ton of educational resources at your fingertips, like all these educational webinars I’ve done over the years on bands on supplementation on cortisol, like all these different things. So if you are the person who likes to learn, you have that available to you. So I just listened to supplementation webinar and I have a question about two supplements that were not explicitly mentioned. First is fish oil and the second is DMA. Anecdotally, I felt like I recover a little faster, and get over some muscle soreness a little faster when I’m using the supplements. Also, I have felt that when I take zeamais before bed, my sleep has been better. Do you have any suggestions about the use of the supplements? information about effectiveness or dosage recommendations? I have read that when it comes to fish oil, you should take a much higher dose than is recommended. Okay, I Well, I guess we’re gonna talk a little bit more about sleep supplementation. But I did want to get out of the way. Fish oil, because we covered fish oil. And like, Well, no, we didn’t tire podcast episode on it on fish oil. So
Kyle Shrum 26:32
Episode 71, actually,
Jerred Moon 26:35
was it 71? Okay, so thanks for pulling that up. So, Episode 71. And it covers I mean, a lot. And ultimately, the takeaway, if you don’t want to go back to 71, you don’t want to kill that comfort of having to use the thumbs and dedicate the time. And I’m not picking on you, Steven, I’m just joking in general terms here. But the ultimate takeaway was, there are so many benefits to fish oil, like, like cardiovascular health wise, most people should be taking it if you’re not consuming enough fish already. And there is some evidence to suggest that fish oil supplementation across a broad range of doses dosages may reduce soreness and improve recovery. But in the evidence gets weaker, and showing modest benefits for things like body composition and training adaptations. So there may be some recovery benefits is not super strong link. But the cardiovascular links alone definitely should be taking as far as taking you he mentioned taking way more than they say that you should. broader literature seems to indicate that combined EPA dh a dosage of roughly one to three grams a day appears to be sufficient for most purposes. I don’t know if that’s beyond what fish oil. I think that’s normally about what a fish oil serving size would be. I do think that in the study that we covered, they got up to like three to six grams of fish oil a day. But yeah, they got all the way up to six grams a day. And I think that that was like overboard. There wasn’t necessarily more benefit after you got to a certain point. So I think if you’re just consistent with the, let’s say, one to two grams a day, you’re going to be fine and get most of the most of the benefit. Now as far as CMA. I don’t know if I’ve never taken CMA from the studies that I pulled on CMA, it seemed like if you are not deficient in zinc or magnesium, CMA didn’t really help wasn’t that helpful. But it wasn’t necessarily like detrimental to your performance either. But kind of depended on depends on like, where your current blood Saturation levels are on these things. And then we’ll, I’ll throw it over the team. I stole those right off the beginning because I know we were gonna talk more about sleep supplementation in general, because the overall effectiveness of DMA is probably not overwhelming. But we can talk about some other stuff if people need some help with that. So who’s up?
Ashley Hicks 29:01
Travis? Why don’t you go first since we made you go last last time
Kyle Shrum 29:04
knock it out. shrimpers? Yeah,
Jerred Moon 29:06
I don’t want to hear I have been waiting hours I mean days hours, at least a day hours half a day.
Um, as far as krill oil or official, I take krill oil on it, krill oil, it’s about I think it’s 1000 milligrams per serving. And I noticed that our I feel like I noticed a difference when I’m on it, versus when I stopped taking it. So there’s that exam I’ve never taken so I have no,
Jerred Moon 29:36
there’s even studies on fish oil that I think like six weeks of supplementation can like improve your night vision by 30% or something crazy like that. I mean, there’s there’s very little reason in my opinion, to not take fish oil, because there’s a 95% chance you’re not eating enough fish. Like I eat a good amount of fish and I’m probably still not eating enough fish.
You know what I mean? Like I’m yeah, I’m doing Definitely not eating enough fish. So yeah, yeah, krill sleep aids. I have zero experience Well, I would say zero experience. Um,
Jerred Moon 30:12
you should have that’s why the
movie voted. We what we voted yesterday what this topic was going to be what I voted for did not when they want to talk about sleep aids, I have zero experience. I went and bought a bottle of melatonin.
Jerred Moon 30:30
The Deadly option here people
apparently a high dose of melatonin as well. A very high dose 10 milligrams. They all thought I was gonna be dead. And what’s kind of interesting about this is I woke up a little bit earlier than my alarm and ready to go. Like, I don’t know that I’ve ever
Kyle Shrum 30:52
well, what’s what’s weird is my Garmin. And this is obviously one night so my garment said I had zero deep sleep. It was all light sleep last night. And so I don’t know if I just didn’t get that deep sleep. So I was up and ready to go or what but um, how do you feel? I feel like that’s the most important. Feeling good. No, I felt good. Like, and I usually train in the mornings, but so it’s not it’s not a huge struggle, but like it was easy for me to get up this morning. And then and I went out there and did 16 minutes on the bike, a little zone too. So
Jerred Moon 31:30
like so just put that in perspective. I’ve taken mole melatonin multiple times. The typical dosage I take is three milligrams. And that is perfect. Perfect for me and trampas when it all in never having had done asleep at 1010 milligrams.
Kyle Shrum 31:45
I had no idea. No idea what was gonna happen to him. Yeah.
What was weird? What was weird, and honestly, I didn’t look it up. I just grabbed a bottle. Publix and I posted it to the slack group and they’re like, oh, wow, okay, here we go. But I did take it. I took it 30 minutes before I wanted to go to sleep and I was asleep. 30 minutes later. Like without a doubt.
Jerred Moon 32:14
Did you have any hangover effect the next day?
It would be this morning and no, really? No. I mean, that’s what I’m saying is that it was almost weird how? Like, ready? I was. I woke up 15 minutes for my alarm and I was ready to go.
Jerred Moon 32:30
So do you normally toss and turn a lot at night? Like, like the falling asleep? Does that take you a while?
No, it doesn’t take me. It doesn’t take me long, especially when we turn out the lights. It’s time to go to sleep. My wife got a lighter shower than normal. And I was asleep by the time she got out of shower though but the lights Oh, nice. So
Ashley Hicks 32:53
was it in pill form? Or was it a gummy?
It’s a capsule. So this is beautiful. But you know I
Jerred Moon 33:02
so melatonin on your n equals one and one time. Right? worked for me. Great, I guess well, we’ll revisit after he does a week worth of 10 milligram melatonin doesn’t waste that bottle. trampas he got a
one other thing I have to mention because Joe told me that one of us had to it was apparently Oh no. I’m gonna I’m gonna I’m gonna church it up a bit. I’m apparently downstream you can have issues. Be vague. Yeah. Being clogged. I think constipation constipation. Okay. 00 issues. Um, today, Joe
Jerred Moon 33:48
mentioned that I so here we go, Joe. I hope Joe listens to this. Joe, Joe’s experience with melatonin was during a five month deployment to like Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever the hell he was at. And he was taking melatonin a lot. But at the same time. Why? Why are we discussing what his diet was when he was deployed? Right? He’s like, all of a sudden got constipated when I started taking melatonin at deployments. Like were you eating it was back Yeah, the deep back food or did you slide a couple Mr. E’s in there? Maybe? Oh, no. What it so I have taken melatonin quite a bit off and on over the years. I’ve never once experienced a constipation problem. I don’t know if that’s a common thing for other people. But I have never had any issue with that. I would just throw that out there to go against the only thing Joe added to the conversation today. But I will
say also caveat to that is I did track him cheat for the first time yesterday, so I’m sure my microbiome is just perfect. Yeah, man.
Kyle Shrum 34:57
Travis went full sand. He’s here. elevated his entire existence to another level, I believe last 24 hours.
Ashley Hicks 35:06
I believe my quote on slack was that is a bit excessive.
Jerred Moon 35:10
I didn’t want to say anything. I was like, that was great. I cannot wait to hear about your 10 milligram dose tomorrow. Let me let me know.
I said it wasn’t bad. I went to sleep easy than normal and woke up better than the normal, which I don’t know, maybe that says there’s something. Something else wrong. that it takes 10 milligrams of melatonin for me to wake up well, but or wake up better? I don’t know. Maybe not? Cow. Yes, you got.
Kyle Shrum 35:37
I’m gonna, I’m gonna say do it for the next seven days and see how extensive trial does for you. And then come off of it for seven days and see how it works. Then we’ll demo really, really no, but that’s awesome. To have a one amazing night of sleep in a super productive day, the next day. That’s awesome. I don’t really know what to contribute at this moment. I think I think Trump is kind of knocked it out of the park. I’ve never used sleep aids. I’ve never used the melatonin. I’ve never used any of that stuff. I’ve also never really had issues. Going to sleep. We’ve talked about it on the podcast before. of downregulation. We did it a long time ago, I did not look up which episode that was I’m sorry. But we talked about downregulation A while back and but I shared in that episode. I’ve never had down regulation issues never really had sleep issues. And so I’ve never used them, I will say that we used a child’s dose, we did not give our daughter 10 milligrams of melatonin. But she had a recent sleep regression over the last few weeks. And it was it was pretty, pretty aggressive. Sleep regression pretty, pretty bad. And that’s the only reason that we even considered using melatonin for her was. It was it was bad. It was multiple times at night. She was inconsolable when she would wake up like it was just it was bad. So we started we use some melatonin for her we were not still using it because she worked herself out of it. She’s not using it anymore. But it was it was I think it what it did it didn’t it cut down on the number of times she woke up during the night. And I think it also kind of helped her get back to sleep more easily until she got out of that sleep regression. But that’s my only experience with any kind of sleep aids at all. And, and so I don’t know, I think I feel like I feel like it, you know, based on what Trump is, and maybe I didn’t need to try at least in the big you know, the big Tim 10 milligram dosage, but don’t go weak with it. Yeah, but z ma I don’t I don’t have any experience with CMA either. I would say if you’re not getting enough zinc and magnesium, and, and those types of things in your diet supplementation, I think is a good way to go. Or just eat foods that have that stuff in it. And that’s kind of my go to with supplementation, I tend to not except for fish oil, I do take fish oil as well. But I tend to try to stay away from supplementation unless I just can’t get what I need out of my food. And so that’s just kind of my go to strategy with all these things is to kind of avoid supplementation and try to get it in my diet. And so as far as zinc and magnesium, I try to get those in my diet instead of taking a supplement. You can get zinc in meat in lagoons, nuts and seeds. You can get magnesium and avocados also nuts and legumes and seeds. So there you go. Get zinc and magnesium from from those names. Maybe try some nuts and seeds instead of some supplements. You know I mean up to you. Yeah, that’s that’s all I got. I don’t really have any experience was in May. So I don’t really know what else to say. Go ahead, actually. Sorry if that was not helpful.
Jerred Moon 39:26
No, I you uh, you came in with some some good points there. Yeah, I was but I have not taken CMA either. Just so we’re all aware. It’s not like you didn’t have to come here having taken it to discuss it.
Ashley Hicks 39:39
We all bought it and all took it last night should have bought
some last night and let us know how you felt.
Kyle Shrum 39:44
Yeah, that’s the only way we can do it. Now. After after Trump says pull sand on the melatonin. We just got to go. I really try all this stuff.
Ashley Hicks 39:54
For us, I’m not a big fan of sleep aids. I have You know, family members who’ve had issues with sleep and whatnot. And actually, this kind of hits home a little bit. I too, have tested out melatonin recently. I was having some issues with sleep recently. And I feel like both hens and Connor are were like on the same wavelength. Like, literally the next day after Hannah posted that Connor did the exact same thing was inconsolable, was screaming up like 12 times in the middle of the night. So for both him and I, a friend was just like, just pops melatonin. It’ll be great. And for me, kind of what trampa said for melatonin for me, like 30 minutes after. I was like, I felt that fog, like you need to go to sleep. But it did not sustain me through the night. I only took five milligrams, which was at what I’ve read was pretty high for like a super extra sleep. And you know, trampas exceeded that. So there’s and then I gave my little one I was like maybe one milligram if that. And it did the opposite for him. He I felt was oh well longer stretches.
Jerred Moon 41:09
trottin? No. We just go ahead. It’s like we we don’t know anything about proper noon. Proper dosage for kids. Since Trump has just said that you should dose you’re good.
Yeah, definitely, you should definitely consult his pediatrician.
Ashley Hicks 41:28
There you go. Thank you. So again, I’m just not a huge fan of sleep aids. What I am a huge fan of is Kyle mentioned it down regulation. I love good down regulation practices, and Kyle touched on it. But it’s Episode 29. And we each gave you ideas of what to do. And so like I’m down with some warm tea, some blue light blockers, no screens, like really hone in on that stuff when sleep is eluding you. As for zeamais. Again, I also have never taken it. But I hesitate to ever tell someone to take a supplementation, because Jerry touched on it at the beginning, I would never want to say, hey, lots of people are deficient in this, you should take this because you might have your lab work done and you might not be deficient in it. So what’s the point of taking it and there has been like, it has shown that if you take it like let’s say magnesium, let’s say you’re not deficient in magnesium, and then you take this z ma stuff and you’re overdoing your magnesium, it affects other things within your body. So what I would suggest is consult your physician, whatever that may be, and maybe do a bit of lab work and see like, do I need this zinc B six, magnesium kind of stuff? Um, but yeah, I would hone down more on some downregulation. Steven, if we’re not answering any of your questions. But that would be my, my two cents, Jared.
Jerred Moon 42:57
I mean, ultimately, the answer is questions. zeamais doesn’t seem to be more effective than melatonin. And that’s why we’re talking about melatonin. Melatonin is an actual hormone that’s going to help you fall asleep quicker. So if you read the book, why we sleep he talks about melatonin, and he states in there that melatonin seems to be fate, safe, even up to with two years of supplementation. And then after you stop supplementing it, your body just kicks back into producing melatonin. And so it seems to be very safe, which is not the case. So your body doesn’t always do that. We’ll do that. Like if you take a thyroid, thyroid supplementation or testosterone supplementation, it normally will inhibit your body’s ability to produce that hormone. Your body always comes back, but It normally takes time and normally takes time and melatonin. For some reason your body’s just pretty friggin good at it. It’s like, oh, you’re not gonna you’re not taking it. Okay, I’ll make it. So it does seem to be a really safe supplement. So if I had to pick between z Ma and melatonin, I would say take melatonin, but I wouldn’t. It’s not habit forming. It’s very safe up to long as far as like studies are concerned up to two years that we are aware of which is really long study for supplement seems to be safe. I don’t like taking supplements for long periods of time. I have taken melatonin a lot. Maybe over the last couple of years. I primarily do it when I’m traveling, especially if there’s if there’s a timezone change, and I just want to try and get back. Get on that schedule as fast as I can, you know, because so I’m trying to fall asleep earlier than normal, taking some melatonin to increase melatonin production and fall asleep. And melatonin does help you fall asleep faster. But it’s not like a sleep drug in which it kind of keeps you asleep. So if you have a problem waking up in the middle of the night or you you have to urinate in the middle of the night like whatever those things are, those things aren’t going away because you’re like zonked out. It’s really the beginning of the night that melatonin helps helps you fall asleep faster. And that’s the main benefit unless you take 10 milligrams, who knows what can happen? Just trampas keep doing it. So just to hit on that I do typically take three milligrams. I think it works incredibly well. For me. I have some people in my family who are not very healthy, who say Melatonin is like a joke. And my theory on that is, these kind of supplements work for you if you are already healthy. And so if you are getting enough sleep, you’re hydrated nutrition is good you’re working out during the day. But maybe your mind’s a little bit busy and you need help with that. downregulation maybe it’s a period of your life, you know, not a permanent thing, take some melatonin and help you fall asleep faster. There. So far, there’s not a lot of science I tried pulling it up on Is there any performance related stuff and there’s not the only thing that we can tie to is if it if it’s a difference in you getting seven and a half versus six hours of sleep because you’re falling asleep faster. There’s gonna be a huge performance gain there. And so these are things you have to look at it an individualized standpoint. So dancer, Steven question. Absolutely take fish oil, there seems to be decent evidence that it helps performance, a lot of evidence that it helps with cardiovascular health helps with your eyes. And most people don’t eat enough fish. If you do enough fish then you don’t need to supplement. And as far as the AMA, I think it’s okay. It doesn’t seem to be as scientifically proven as melatonin. I don’t think that is very harmful either. It doesn’t seem to be like it would be a harmful supplement. But I couldn’t find any scientific literature that suggested that it was a amazing you know, like something that where I saw like I see the the science on tart cherry juice, or I see the science on beetroot juice. And I’m like, that’s pretty clear cut. I’ll take those things, you know, that’s fine. But I pulled as much as I could on the CMA and I didn’t see anything that would make me want to even consider taking it but visual. Absolutely. So that’s kind of my take on those things.
Ashley Hicks 47:03
They said that like it could cause some crazy dreams. Did you read anything about that
Jerred Moon 47:07
I have heard about. So I heard like in the bodybuilding world, z ma is very popular. A lot of bodybuilders take it but um, yeah, I’ve heard the dreams from z ma for sure.
Ashley Hicks 47:18
Yeah, I just there’s a product called beam, I think and it’s like more CBD though. And apparently people who take that to like have like they call them beam dreams because have the craziest kind of drink. It just makes me wonder like, what, what it’s affecting anyways.
Jerred Moon 47:37
Yeah, and go into downregulation. The reason we recommend blue log blue light blockers are the reason they are even recommended is because a TV screen a computer monitor, a phone screen, sends blue light to your eyes, and your eyes will see that and result in thinking it’s daytime and suppress melatonin production. And so that’s why we say that going back to just tying in the whole melatonin thing, that’s why you wear blue blockers where your body will start producing that melatonin earlier and it won’t be suppressed. So again, if you’re like traveling late at night, you’re not wearing blue blockers maybe forgot them or whatever, dropping some melatonin just gonna help with what you may have been suppressing. So I really feel like it can be a beneficial supplement if you have a good understanding of a blue light how Melatonin is produced the fact that you need day need sunlight, bright sunlight in the in the middle of the day to help set your circadian rhythm all the bigger picture things are important not I don’t sleep well. I’m gonna take melatonin. Look at everything before you just throw that in there. Yeah,
Kyle Shrum 48:39
I think also understanding the word supplement versus replacement. I think sometimes we get people maybe get mixed up with that of, you know, a supplement is something that should be supplementing the good things that you’re already doing, which is kind of what we’ve already touched on as well. It shouldn’t be something that’s replacing things that you’re just leaving out. And I think that’s kind of the point that Jared is making is like you if you’re going to take a supplement it needs to be something that supplementing things that you’ve already, you know, worked hard to dial in, you’re already doing well with, not things that you’re just replacing and not not focusing on in other ways skin and that’s kind of why I bring up like my my default is to try to get this in my diet, like the zinc and the magnesium and the basics and all that like I need. My default is to eat those things. And if I can’t get enough, kinda like what Jared said with the fish oil, but I can’t get enough in what I eat, then I will supplement with more. But I’m trying to dial in in other ways in the other ways that are that are better habits. Trying to dial those better habits in before I go to a supplement as well.
Yeah, not to mention like the marketers, they’re really good at what they do and they will put a cheap cheap way of money. That supplement, whereas it may not even, it may not even be used by your body because it just it doesn’t get absorbed, or
Jerred Moon 50:09
that’s always my, that’s always my fear with supplements is them just being cheaply made, you know, and that’s why I don’t really like taking supplements, mainly because of that reason I take protein. And honestly, like, I don’t know if I will forever, you know, try, I’ll probably try to get off taking even supplementing with protein and just stick with coffee and water as my to performance. supplements, you know, but let’s, let’s get into this workout. Anybody have it pulled up? Want to brief it? Sure. All right,
Ashley Hicks 50:43
let’s clean breathing. So you’re going to do one clean and take one breath. And then two cleans two breaths all the way up to 20. And you don’t come back down the letter. It’s just all the way up to 20. Is this one?
Jerred Moon 50:59
Ashley Hicks 51:00
Yep. So that’s pretty what is what do we like to say simple but not easy. That’s, that’s why I think my advice for this would be the weight can be a deal breaker. So you need to make sure that you are careful when you choose this weight. And oh, in the cleans, also, they are full cleans. I hate saying squat clean. I don’t know why. But it’s because a clean is a squat. But if we say power cleans, that’s what you do, you know, you stand up anyways. So it’s a full clean. But my challenge is to take those deep, I call them belly breaths, where your diaphragm is expanding, not those shallow in your chest kind of breaths, because focus on your breathing here, because that is also going to help with your heart rate throughout this entire breathing, exercise. And I think it also helps with people have talked about if they’ve done our breathing ladders that they get lightheaded. And I think a lot of that has to do with where are your breathing? Are you breathing from your chest? Are you breathing from your diaphragm and in your belly? And then lastly, I said, maybe do this one with out music. to focus on that breathing. I know did I just say that I surely did. So to focus on that breath, because that’s what’s I think, the most important part here. And if you can’t do that, I jokingly said maybe this is where jarrods country music can come in. You don’t want something with a bunch of beats going on. Right? You want to be able to take that full breath. And if you can’t take that breath, don’t Isn’t that where you stop and you cut it? Like if you can’t get those breaths in. Is that correct?
Jerred Moon 52:45
All right. I’m still focused on country music. So yeah, you do you do normally cut it off in a breathing ladder. I don’t think that I think that I mean, that’s technically where it’s over. So if you can’t keep up with the pacing of the breath, then you should in the workout because you’re getting too erratic. And it’s not not really the purpose of the programming anymore.
Ashley Hicks 53:07
Right. And the last thing we need you to do is pass out underneath a clean so there’s that. What do you guys have? Kyle? Oh, okay.
Kyle Shrum 53:16
I would say got them. Going along with what Ashley said be intentional with this one. This one is not for Tom. By the way. It’s paced out properly, like you take you do one clean, you do one breath, you do two cleans you do two breaths. So it’s paced out that way. But it’s not for Tom. So don’t get in a I don’t know don’t get to where you’re trying to slam out cleans really fast to get it over with or something like that don’t like be very intentional. And remember the purpose of the workout we’re trying to work on, on breathing properly. As Ashley said, breathing in the proper place in her body like using our diaphragm not are just we’re trying to be this is a very intentional workout. And I think that’s where the mental toughness comes in is wanting to rush through it and get it done. Or not feeling like it’s intense enough. Here’s the thing. Breathing ladders are deceptively tough. Especially if you’re doing a breathing ladder with cleans, like, This is crazy. You know what I mean? Because we’ve done we’ve done it with kettlebells. We’ve done them with with double unders, we’ve done them with all kinds of different movements, but doing them with cleans as well. Clean is very technical, very, very intentional movement as well. And you really need to focus on your movement during a clean as well. And so just that that’s my tip for this one is be very, very intentional with this workout. Understand what the purpose of it is, and focus on each piece of it and do it properly because there’s there’s potential for potential for things not going well for you if you don’t do it properly. trampas
right. Yeah. So leading off of that, that The first time I did clean breathing was in 2017, I think I think it was, it may not have been a meet yourself Saturday, but you know, you program something similar to this from time to time anyways, but I wasn’t using very good form. And it led to me almost quitting GGA for about altogether because I hurt my neck and I hurt my shoulder. And I was like, wow, this is dumb. Um, but if you’re not using good form, you’re accumulating a lot of cleans. So a pick your weight correctly, but also make sure you’re moving, right? That’s gonna be the toughest thing here. So just don’t, don’t ego your way through this. Because if you start breaking forward with something that we don’t do a lot, you know, we don’t, we don’t, we don’t perform a lot of cleaners. Whether it’s a small weight or not, you can mess yourself up. The last thing you want to do is with an optional workout is hurt yourself from being able to get normal training done.
Jerred Moon 56:09
Alright, so my tips are very similar to what has already been mentioned. So Echo, Kyle, know the intent of the workout, it’s to focus on your breath and getting that more dialed in and regulated, because you’ll learn that if you can get your breathing, and you you know, in check in, you figure out how to, you know, control these called, you know, arousal control, if you can, like, stop your body from going into this super flight mode, you know, fight or flight mode, and you can be more intentional about your breath, you can actually really lower how your body responds to high intensity exercise, and maybe even put you in a lower zone. So you can put out more work at a lower heart rate. There’s a lot of benefits to focusing on your breath. And a lot of athletes don’t do it. And that’s why I always recommend breathing exercises, like using an app, whether that’s actual like daily practice. And the occasional like breathing ladder really helps you it’s helped me a lot over the years. So know why you’re going into this. And take your frickin time. I also said there’s no, there’s no real time on this. And that’s because breeding ladders can take a really long time, especially if you’re doing them right. Because when you get to 20 reps of the clean, and then you do 20 like perfect, deep breaths, those 20 breaths should not be quick. Now you are going to be pretty fatigued. And so you might not have as much say about how quickly you’re breathing. But the better that you get at these and the more you do them, the more that you will have say over how long those breaths take. And you’ll realize you know what you can actually what you’re actually capable of. So that was a big one for me. And then on tramp says note he mentioned Yeah, getting hurt. We don’t do a lot of cleans in the program. The reason I selected a clean in this programming is because it is super metabolically demanding. That’s it. There’s nothing special about the clean here. So if you want to participate, get all the same benefits. Do a burpee, okay? burpee, same thing, go one to 20 burpees are for some reason, a human being getting up off the ground is like the hardest thing that we can do. But there’s a lot of movements. There’s a lot of like a lot of physics involved in the burpee, very metabolically demanding. So if you want to a sub, that would not cheat. The benefit is workout at all. Go with a burpee, because it’s probably just as metabolically demanding here for this workout. So do burpee if you’re not comfortable, the cleans. You don’t want to do them. And to be honest when I programming them at all really anymore, so don’t worry about it, just do the burpee. But that’s it be safe, and yeah, really focused on the breath. And for those who do like intense workouts and like hitting it hard, the meet yourself part of this might be slowing the EFF down. Right, like, slow down and get better at fitness and instead of just trying to hit everything balls to the wall all the time. But I think that’s it. Good luck on that workout. We will get out of here for all of our garaged mathletes currently part of the program. Remember, I mentioned earlier the education webinars that we have you can get access to the fuels course anyone who’s not a member, go fix that problem at garage you mathlete.com sign up for a 14 day free trial get access to our educational resources, the programming and the fuels course cost extra anyway so if you don’t want to be a part of that, but you still want to learn about fuels, you can still do that at into three fitness.com and for my weekly reminder if you don’t kill comfort, comfort will kill you.