Hey, Athletes! Does CBD oil help with recovery? Tune in to this week’s episode to find out! Â
Episode 92 of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up!
Does CBD Oil Reduce Soreness and Inflammation?
In this week’s episode we have the fab four back at it again! They give us their updates and announcements before they go over this week’s study. It’s on CBD oil and if it can help you recover from training. This week’s topic is a review on the book called Dirty Genes by Dr. Ben Lynch. The coaches go over their likes, dislikes, and takeaways. This week’s Meet Yourself Saturday is called Out and Back. Make it back within the time cap-if you can!
If you haven’t already, be sure to subscribe to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast either on Stitcher, iTunes, or Google Play by using the link below:
IN THIS 73-MINUTE EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
- Dirty Genes Â
- CBD Oil for Recovery
- Joe’s Trip
- Out and Back
- Air Fryer for the Shrum Household
- Tips For MYS
- Updates and Announcements
- And A LOT MORE!!
Diving Deeper…Â
If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here are some links for you:Â
Study of the WeekÂ
Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the WeekÂ
Be sure to listen to this week’s episode:
Related Resources at End of Three Fitness:Â
- Grounding for Improved Athletic Recovery & Reduction in Inflammation
- Impact of Varying Dosages of Fish Oil on Recovery and Soreness
—Â
Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!
To becoming better!
Jerred
Transcript:Â
Jerred Moon Â
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage mathlete podcast Jerred Moon here with Kyle Shrum, Ashley Hicks and Joe Courtney. Everyone. Welcome.
Kyle Shrum Â
I like that I get mentioned first most of the time now
Whoa,
Jerred Moon Â
I normally go in whichever order zoom presents it on my screen and Kyle, you tend to be an early bird so and sometimes a late bird. It can be there.
Between
Jerred Moon Â
you’re not on time bird, early or late bird. Mostly early though.
Joe Courtney Â
Just the bird.
Jerred Moon Â
Just Just hold his respiration there. Okay, starting with some garage mathlete shout outs. This is Chris Bennett, one of our athletes. He has a goal of running 1000 miles this year, called 2020 run. I don’t know he’s calling it that if that’s an actual movement. And he said, hopefully complete my first 50 mile ultra, and schedule to TBD. So yeah, it’s not like an actual event, right? But neither is the Murph project. It’s more of like something that people are trying to do over an annual time period and I think running 1000 miles in a year. I didn’t even do the math of how many miles that is per week, but it’s more miles than I’ll run this year. That’s for sure. And so that’s awesome, Chris, good luck on on completing your 1000 miles 19.2 19.2
Joe Courtney Â
a week. Yes. Not too bad. I’m trying to think of it.
Like what do you mean not too bad?
Kyle Shrum Â
2.7 miles a day? Yep.
Jerred Moon Â
Yeah, that’s I’m just trying to think of BCT but BCT we hit like what maybe max seven miles in a week. I’m not even running anymore. Yeah, I’m rolling but still. Yeah, sorry. I was running for me
Joe Courtney Â
on a I finally loaded my new pair of running shoes on my Garmin app so that when I anytime I start a run it automatically calculates my miles so tracks how many miles my shoes get.
Jerred Moon Â
Do we just jump to updates? No.
Joe Courtney Â
And since March 2, so like three weeks, I’ve only gotten 23 and a half miles so that’s I’m behind his curve.
Jerred Moon Â
You know, I really like that feature to except for I just disagree when the life of a shoe, they think that a shoe should last way longer than I think
Joe Courtney Â
just depends on how many miles you run. You can set yours manually. So I didn’t know I think they automatically set it to 300 I think I bought mine for five 400 or something. But either way it all go by feel.
Jerred Moon Â
I want to bump mine down to 200
Ashley Hicks Â
question how do you how does one add a shoe
Jerred Moon Â
to add a shoe to the app and then every time you log a run, it adds miles to the shoe? I see. It’ll alert you like hey, it’s time to buy a new pair of shoes.
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah, so yeah, add to gear and then I can automatically assign anytime I start to run it calculates miles to this gear.
Ashley Hicks Â
I know like if you go to the Brooks Brothers website, they can like give you like how many miles you should go before you have to replace your shoe as well like an average of like,
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah.
Jerred Moon Â
All right, this week on the garage mathlete podcast, the study we’re going over it has to do with CBD oil. So the name of the study is the effects of cannabidiol Is that how you say I’ve never actually said the full word for it. Yeah, so anyway, the effects of CBD oil on non invasive measure of muscle damage in men. This was done in 2021 I think this is the first study we’ve covered that is from this year, we were doing a bunch of 2020 studies. So that’s the study we’ll talk about CBD oil if you’re taking it or thinking about taking it I actually have pretty mixed thoughts on this one not just on the study so we can get into that topic is dirty gene so a book review and the workout a new meet yourself Saturday called out and back and we’ll get into it. Alright, first updates. Ashley how’s life
Ashley Hicks Â
is good. Right now I am preparing for travel and visitors because it’s that time of season in Florida. So we’re gonna have lots of family come this way. And
Jerred Moon Â
then whether it gets nicer was like hey, we’re coming to visit
Ashley Hicks Â
Yeah, pretty much and that’s fine. We love it. So just preparing for that and then we ourselves have a lot of travel this year. My sister in law’s getting married like I mentioned so there’s gonna be lots of like Bachelorette weekend and I know Joe you’ve got some of that come into
but my brother actually Yeah,
yeah
Joe Courtney Â
my brother’s a bachelorette. Yeah.
Ashley Hicks Â
Oh my gosh. Um, oh, and another cool thing. My currently in barbell showed up at my doorstep. What what? So thanks for that my husband was more
Jerred Moon Â
than I could see that. Yeah.
Joe Courtney Â
Still waiting on my trip.
Jerred Moon Â
The second I order trap, I’m just gonna order to trap bars when I order. All right, just Well actually, I’m still gonna make you guess and just see, maybe I ordered something else before then make you make you question yourself before
Kyle Shrum Â
echo buy
Joe Courtney Â
back my car.
Ashley Hicks Â
And then the last update for me is just my health doing okay, and adding a thyroid medication. So actually taking a little bit of thyroid meds to hopefully allow my thyroid to actually produce the amount of hormone it needs to produce because right now it’s under producing So, but doing okay, that awesome it for me, Joseph.
Joe Courtney Â
So I finally get to reveal my trip that Liz and I are taking. So I hinted at it to the team about a month ago because it’s a pretty long trip. And because I do a lot of behind the scenes stuff, got to make sure everything’s covered. Just Just to warn i got i gotta warn everybody, and we got to ease into it.
Jerred Moon Â
I want to warn everybody to Joe’s for a while. And
Ashley Hicks Â
so don’t email support.
Jerred Moon Â
Knew what’s gonna happen. You stop getting podcasts, you don’t know why your feeds not updating. That’s it Joe’s guide. It’s not necessarily his fault. It’s, I didn’t I forgot, like, I didn’t do something.
Joe Courtney Â
So well. It’s funny, because the day this comes out is the day that I would be coming back. So really, this is just explaining if anything went wrong in the last two weeks. So yeah, I mean, I did have the solution of Kyle bought for the support, which I think would work out really well. And there too, but Kyle But no, it was just be it’s just, you know, because on the website for the the chat, like one of our pictures comes up, says Hey, what are you doing? But like, Kyle’s it would just not
Jerred Moon Â
that nice. It’s more like can we help you? It’s not
Joe Courtney Â
like Well, yeah.
Jerred Moon Â
Can I know what you’re doing?
Kyle Shrum Â
That’s a different question. And you move those words around. It’s completely different. Like, let’s,
let’s be real here. Okay.
Kyle Shrum Â
How are you doing versus cannot know how you’re doing? Let’s not go there. That’s not what I would say.
This is a great podcast.
Joe Courtney Â
And I’ve just been I’ve been pretty surprised that none of you in the last month neither you have asked like even tried to like figure out where I’m where I’m going. Well, you know, are you going Kyle? Bah. No. Oh, Kyle, but know that that Oh, I thought we already passed that. No, yeah, him. It’ll just be on the website. Say and try harder. Suck a little so every time you have motion to support. It’s just gonna it’s just gonna Kyle bots. Just gonna say that,
Jerred Moon Â
like my email auto reply when you email
Joe Courtney Â
changing. Yeah, except I’m never gonna turn it off. Just like your email.
Kyle Shrum Â
Well, the way we on the team get jarrods email reply as well. Not just people outside
Jerred Moon Â
if you’ve ever emailed me. Good luck.
Kyle Shrum Â
I also personally, we’re ruining Joseph. Joe. Where are you going in
Joe Courtney Â
now? I don’t care. Yeah, finally. So like you guys. Were just surprised that you guys haven’t asked. I thought
Jerred Moon Â
you’re doing a two two week staycation in Bahrain at a fancy hotel. Yeah, to
Kyle Shrum Â
me. You’re already on vacations. Yeah.
Joe Courtney Â
I don’t leave the house. But yeah, when we do our vacations, but they still Wi Fi. And what? I don’t think I could go anywhere on this island for two weeks and just like be away from home. That would be really hard.
Jerred Moon Â
Alright, let’s hear it. I guess. Can we guess and then if we get it right. You’ve paid for a trip for us to go.
Joe Courtney Â
That’s it? Yes. That’s it. Sure.
Jerred Moon Â
Okay, Thailand.
Joe Courtney Â
This is the final decision. But
Jerred Moon Â
I guess in Thailand?
Kyle Shrum Â
No, he’s going to Europe. I’m gonna say
Ashley Hicks Â
it’s locked down.
Kyle Shrum Â
I thought he said he was going to Europe.
It’s locked down though.
Joe Courtney Â
I mean, every country is different.
Kyle Shrum Â
Every country is different. Can you guess Europe though? I don’t know. I’m trying to think of a place Asia.
Jerred Moon Â
The new world?
I don’t even know.
Ashley Hicks Â
It’s someplace with not without Wi Fi like that’s, I mean, Thailand’s probably a good guess.
Jerred Moon Â
islands a great guest. It might be wrong, but it’s a good guess.
Joe Courtney Â
At least it’s an actual guess neither. You’re just like,
I’m trying to figure
Ashley Hicks Â
out like, I don’t know if you guys would want to do like a tour in Turkey or
Kyle Shrum Â
I’m not actually gonna get a vacation out of it. So I don’t really care. I’m not gonna
Ashley Hicks Â
Alright, I don’t know. Where are you going?
Joe Courtney Â
We’re going to Tanzania. And we’re gonna Joe’s
same letter.
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah, Thailand, Tanzania.
Jerred Moon Â
You’re gonna hike a Kilimanjaro.
Joe Courtney Â
So, first couple days we’ll be we’ll do a safari. And then there’s a seven day guided camping hike that so we’ll be going up the mountain and staying intense to like Kilimanjaro. So that is when I’m gonna be off the grid for seven or eight days. It starts in like a rain forest and it will end in like 19,000 feet Arctic. condition so it’ll be pretty intense.
Kyle Shrum Â
Why? Actually, actually Joe’s The one who could die on his trip? Yeah,
Jerred Moon Â
yes. Kilimanjaro is like your chance of dying on a daily basis, probably less than 1%. But it probably jumps up to about five on your trip. So just be careful.
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah. Well, so wait a week ago. I so I Marco actually knew before all of you because I had to ask Marco about elevation stuff. And his because he did Everest to Basecamp. Whoa. No, yeah. Marco did Everest. It’s okay. We care about we care about Marco.
Jerred Moon Â
I knew he did. Yeah. Garage, gym athlete shirt and send us a picture at Basecamp. So that’s his
Joe Courtney Â
athlete of the week shirt. Yeah, so that’s a seven day thing. And then after that, we will end in Zanzibar, which is a tropical island off of Tanzania for like three days. So yeah, that is the trip. So I guess as of publish date when this comes out, I will be on my way back. But if you hopefully
get a legit pack.
Ashley Hicks Â
What’s that mean? You’re gonna if you’re doing nothing, but like hiking up and staying or you Aren’t you gonna have like a pack on your back?
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah, Rubble backpack. We are with the group. So it’s a guided tour. Thanks. So they actually, like people will set up our tents and stuff. So I’m not like roughing it. Oh, shoot. Okay, but it’s still like, yeah, we’re still hiking the entire thing. And we started like 5000 feet. And at 19,000 feet.
Jerred Moon Â
We did, like, you will get sick.
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah, we’re trying to avoid that because there’s they kind of acclimate you as you go through. We’ll see how it goes.
Jerred Moon Â
I think you can get acclimated to like 10 or 1519.
Joe Courtney Â
So we spent like three days at 13. And then the very last day we like, go up really quick. And I’m like, Hey, we’re at the peak. Alright, cool. Let’s go down and then we just go down like 4000 you’ll get hypoxic.
Jerred Moon Â
Hey, we’ll, we’ll see what happens.
Joe Courtney Â
Here to make me feel really good about this.
Ashley Hicks Â
You’re gonna die and get high.
Kyle Shrum Â
We’re just I’m just making raises. I can plan.
Jerred Moon Â
Yeah, we’re burning through time. On this point. This might be a two hour podcast.
No. Wait, yeah,
Jerred Moon Â
I’m in no hurry.
Kyle Shrum Â
I don’t even know. I don’t even know if I can share my update. Now. No one knows.
Jerred Moon Â
You really wanted to share before we started though.
Joe Courtney Â
I’m intrigued by it.
Kyle Shrum Â
Really nothing.
Jerred Moon Â
Is it new? Is it because he’s going to Tanzania. You’re like, I can’t come back.
Kyle Shrum Â
Yeah, is hacking Kilimanjaro. That’s great. It was really big to do. Alright, so here’s my attempt to top that. Hannah and I just got an airfryer
Joe Courtney Â
ang mass. Wow.
Kyle Shrum Â
We have a new thing to cook with. We have a I don’t know, we got a bunch of friends that have them. And they’ve been telling us how good they are. And we go to their house and eat dinner and they made their stuff in the airfryer. And it’s really good. So we were like, okay, let’s get one. And so we like it. Joe should
Jerred Moon Â
have definitely gone last. Yeah.
Kyle Shrum Â
That’s my life. Right? Because my friend any other podcast,
Jerred Moon Â
I would have thought that was cool. But I am actually like man Kilimanjaro to airfryer is rough, man. Yeah,
Ashley Hicks Â
I’m excited for you, Kyle.
Kyle Shrum Â
Thank you.
Joe Courtney Â
I’m excited about haggling last seven days years there for the last few years a lifetime.
Jerred Moon Â
That’s great. I love that do
Ashley Hicks Â
chicken strips in the
Joe Courtney Â
new new philosophy. A Kilimanjaro hike last seven days when I airfryer last lifetime.
Jerred Moon Â
I think Kyle actually wins.
Kyle Shrum Â
He needs a Tanzanian vacation
Jerred Moon Â
I gotta I gotta reel this in. Let me let me step up to the plate here. I don’t have any real updates nor what I try after such a ridiculous set of events that just occurred. But Murph burner track is just a big thing I want to announce right now. If you are not familiar we’ve talked about on the webinar everything else just you can get involved at any point in time with the merch burner tractors go to groschen Garage mathlete comm we have a place for you to go in the menu. It also be an announcement on the website if you are unsure how to join. Again, it’s $7 and it is a fundraiser that we’re doing for the Special Operations warrior foundation. So it’s more fun than anything even if you don’t want to do the training but you’d like to donate I mean you could donate just straight on the Special Operations warrior Foundation website if you want. That’s fine too. However you want to do it because we do donate profits from our merchandise store but this is like a good like push to have like a Single like big lump sum donation all at once, and I’d like to be doing it on an annual basis. So, merch burner track, go check it out. And then also garage gym tours, we’re accepting your garage gym tour. And we will, there’s also a place for you to do that on garage gym athlete.com, you could submit your video and we will review it, publish it on our YouTube channel and you get free stuff. This is really open to just about anyone so long as it’s a good tour. So you could submit your video and we have instructions on how to do all that stuff and get a free band or get a free shirt, whatever merchandise you want from us for your submission. So that those are my updates cuz I wouldn’t dare touch my boring personal life compared to Kilimanjaro right now. So,
Joe Courtney Â
or an air fryer
or an air fryer or thyroid meds.
Jerred Moon Â
Just an exciting, riveting. All right, so the study I mentioned is on CBD oil. The purpose of the study was to evaluate the effects of CBD oil on recovery from centric exercise with outcomes, including perceived soreness, arm circumference, hanging joint angle, isometric peak torque, in Rp. What I think is weird. And maybe I’m already like jumping into things is like the biggest thing I know about CBD oil is reduction in inflammation. And they didn’t actually measure any reduction in inflammation so that that I find weird. Anyway, the study was completed by 13 untrained men who had not participated in upper body resistance exercise within six months of study enrollment. Participants are required to have a BMI under 30. And they were excluded if they were reefers or had any injuries. Because they didn’t want to have any THC or other CBD in their system. The researchers hypothesized that CBD oil would reduce soreness and inflammation in addition to enhancing performance recovery. And it was a randomized double blind study that utilized a crossover design. So subjects serve as their own controls, each participant completed the full study protocol with one randomly assigned treatment, then completed the protocol again with the other treatment after two week waiting period. And conclusion was there wasn’t really CBD oil didn’t really help anything. It wasn’t, didn’t help anything. And I’m going to throw that asterisk out there as far as arm circumference, hinging joint angle, isometric peak torque or Rp. So that’s what it didn’t help, specifically. So what did any of you think about the study?
Joe Courtney Â
So the reason why so I usually sometimes bring out the schedule size we’re doing and our biggest one, because we’ve had several vectorizer athletes on like, ama’s. When we ask people well ask us any questions few people have asked us about CBD, oil and recovery. So I wanted to at least pick out one study for us to look at just to bring it up out of the table on the table. I know myself, Jared vd and Marco can’t even try CBD oil. Not that I’ve even kind of wanted to, but we just can’t, if you work for the government. Anyway, I think this is just another, you know, marketing buzzword supplement to get out there without fully proving the extent of any benefits. It’s, you know, one of those shiny object syndrome, supplements that you just people are going to slap on things. And I think it’s going to do great stuff. But there’s not that much research out there to saying that it is beneficial to me if CBD oil would i would think that it would make you be more for like, in mental benefits, like either lessen the stress, maybe even RP kind of things. To my mind. And apparently, as I was researching to the more I could also have some antioxidant effects. But as far as recovery, like muscle recovery, or soreness, as of right now there doesn’t show to have anything. That’s what this study kind of measured. I was also this this is probably also one of the studies where having untrained athletes, I don’t think was very good. Because they’re trying to see how the the soreness reduction is. But I think because they were doing e centric bicep curls, or a bicep exercise, which they’re going to these people have that used to it there’s going to be super sore, and it’s probably gonna be hard to have any of them experienced any benefit, in my opinion, but if they were, yeah,
Jerred Moon Â
yeah, that was like one of my I hated that part of this because you could take an untrained athlete and have them do ridiculous e centric training and then load them with 1200 milligrams of ibuprofen and they’re still going to be sore. Like, and we know ibuprofen works, right. So I just felt like it was overall a poor execution of the study.
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah, and super small. So that’s kind of the main my main thing about this is just one of those that is just I guess the first step I’ve been looking at CBD. But Kyle, what do you have?
Kyle Shrum Â
I think maybe part of what they were doing with that was trained individuals, I mean, I get the type of training they were doing was, is probably gonna make pretty much anybody. So no matter how long you’ve been training, but I think they were trying to mitigate that a little bit where trained individuals are going to be more adapted to muscle soreness and things like that. That’s kind of what they were thinking. But I also get the other side of it that you guys are saying is that untrained individuals, this, like, they’re not really going to have to do a whole lot of training in order to get sore. But the training they did was, was pretty significant, they did some pretty significant training. So anyway, so I see both sides of it on that right there. I agree that, obviously, according to this study, CBD didn’t really have any effect on muscle soreness. But I also think it’s a little, maybe that’s not really what it’s for. But also, it’s a little too early to make a definitive statement on whether CBD is actually beneficial or not. there’s just not a lot of literature out there. There’s not a lot of studies out there right now on CBD and especially with the things that we talk about with the things that we’re concerned about. And so I think there are some people out there listening that maybe, you know, are interested in the CBD, maybe already use it for themselves for different things, or whatever. So we’re, I don’t want to take the position that it’s absolutely not beneficial or anything, I think it’s too early to tell, make really make a definitive statement one way or the other. And so, to me, it’s just kind of this study just kind of says, Hey, it didn’t, didn’t work for this thing that we were measuring. But there were also other things like Jerry brought up that, that they could have measured that they didn’t. I also think it seems to be a little bit more psychological. And this is kind of like the the whole placebo effect type deal. If you’re using something, and it feels like it’s working for you, then it’s having some kind of effect, right? Even if even if CBD is not actually having any kind of like, for instance, even if taking the CBD is not actually physically helping your soreness. If it feels like to you that it’s helping your soreness, then you’re getting a benefit from it, it’s having an effect on you. So that’s kind of what it seems like to me is, but I think that goes with everything as well. It feels to you like it’s helping you, then it is on some on some level. So that’s just kind of where I fall on it, I have no interest in trying it for myself. Especially with this, I think maybe it might have more benefits with things like pain, not like soreness, but like pain relief, like joint pain or something like that, or help with injuries or something like that. It may may help out with that. And maybe we can look out for a study on that. But I still really have no interest in using it myself. But I think it’s a little too early to make a definitive statement one way or the other, whether it’s beneficial. Overall.
Ashley
Ashley Hicks Â
Um, so I won’t be there. You guys talked a lot about it. And I kind of agree with the both of you, I would be interested to see, or how these men slept is what I want to say like, I know a lot of people do CBD to kind of like calm down or, you know, someone who takes CBD every night. You know, they’ve got so many things now. There’s a group of guys called the buttery bros and they talk about beam. Have you heard of this stuff and you put it in your coffee, and it’s CBD. And it just like helps you fall asleep and stay asleep kind of thing. I know my brother personally like take CBD cuz he suffers with anxiety and anxiety. meds caused him to be sick sometimes. And instead of trying to like switch it up. He tried CBD and CBD actually affected him in a positive way where he can actually like calm down from a panic attack kind of thing. So I don’t know I the dosing on this, to me was kind of it was six milligrams per kilogram of body weight. I still felt like that was a lot of CBD. Because if you know, Jared, we always take your bodyweight, for example. So you’re 185 so that’s like over 500 milligrams of CBD. I don’t know what a normal dosing like you could go get at a store is because again, I have never taken CBD. But yeah, if we looked at it for inflammation, I would be intrigued to see what that would have looked like. But, I mean, again, we just don’t know because this is not what the study went over.
Jared.
Jerred Moon Â
Yeah, so my personal take I feel like people are either and it’s unfortunate to people who are either kind of like anti marijuana or pro marijuana and then this becomes like a polarizing Topic to some degree. And I don’t mind revealing my stance here, I’m not anti anything, basically, like if you want to smoke weed, and that helps you in some way smoke weed, especially if it’s legal in your state or whatever. But the great thing I think about CBD is there’s just a lot of proven benefits from the marijuana plant. There just are, period a lot, a lot of research has been done on it. What I think is awesome about CBD is it removes almost all THC, which is the psychoactive compound that like if you wanted reduction in inflammation, or better sleep or reduce anxiety, and, you know, whatever, let’s just say 15 years ago and CBD oil wasn’t popular at all and probably barely produced your you could have any legal drug or nothing at all right? Or you could have it like medically prescribed or something like that. And now that CBD is out there, you can get it almost anywhere these days. You can order it online, like it’s legalized everywhere. And because it’s because it has no THC. So there’s no psychoactive compound, there’s nothing that’s going to make you feel differently mentally, it’d be like, if you could drink a glass of wine. I mean, you can do this as basically called coffee, but like and get all the antioxidant benefits without the alcohol affecting you, right. And that’s why I really like CBD. Because I have friends with PTSD, I have friends with pain, and I have people like I just in some very serious issues. So my outlook on people smoking marijuana or taking CBD oil, I’m all for it, if it helps you, whether it’s actually helping you or you think it’s helping you. So most of the things that I know about CBD oil are related around anxiety and inflammation. And so I think it helps a lot with like you guys are saying that mental side of reduction and anxiety and depression and all these terrible like mental states that human beings can get into. And I don’t know have not looked at the science on inflammation. But that’s what I’ve heard it to be helpful with, like, that’s why it can help a reduction in pain, like in cancer patients is this reduction in inflammation. So I was a little bummed when we got into the study, and they didn’t measure a single inflammation marker. They’re just asking people if they’re sore. I think it’s kind of silly. But I don’t think I don’t think that this is even cbds place, I do think that it’s worked its way into the athletic world somehow. And I don’t really know if it should be there. I think is it kill Cliff that has killed cliffs CBD or whatever. Like that’s a joke guys come on like that. It’s just a joke, like he like and there’s nothing wrong with CBD oil, but they’re probably putting this tiny bit of CBD oil and it can like, it’d be easier to just go buy some CBD gummies or get some oil or whatever if you want to take CBD oil. So I think things like that are a little gimmicky and ridiculous. But from here, it doesn’t seem that it even helps with a reduction in soreness. I’m not gonna say doesn’t work. I’m just saying it doesn’t help with the reduction in soreness and untrained athletes don’t stick to exactly what the conclusion was of this study. But there are a lot of other benefits for CBD oil. And it seems like on this podcast alone, we have, actually and I just know people who have taken it and seen a lot of great results from it. So I definitely don’t want to sit here and say anything bad about it, just from personal experience. But yeah, it doesn’t seem to be that great in the athletic training world, maybe for a garage gym athlete if you’re taking it for because you don’t want to be sore. Never in my life. I like from day one of working out too now. Have I thought that I need to take any sort of medication to relieve muscle soreness, or anything at all, like I’ve never been so sick, and I’ve been really frickin sore. I’m talking like, abs so sore, I can’t get out of bed type stuff. And I’ve never thought you know what I need? I need a drug or something to mitigate this muscle soreness, like it’s just muscle soreness. It’s not that big of a deal. But if you’re in some sort of serious pain, maybe go with some CBD oil, maybe it’ll help you out. You know, I’m not sure but you can you can try it out yourself. So that’s kind of my my take on it. Yeah, I
Joe Courtney Â
think if I ever get like super sore from anything by first thought seriously, I didn’t eat enough recently, or I haven’t done this exercise enough recently, because I’m just too sore from it. Nothing’s gonna fix that though.
Jerred Moon Â
Right? And, and if you take like, the inflammatory response from exercise is a good thing. Like that’s part of it. So if you get really sore and you are, let’s just go back to ibuprofen, you’re taking ibuprofen and you’re reducing that soreness. That’s a bad thing. It’s the same reason why you don’t want too many antioxidants in your diet. Because specifically with endurance exercise too many antioxidants can work in the opposite effect and you won’t see as many results as you should have from endurance exercise if you take too many or you have too many antioxidants in your diet, and it’s similar with This implement inflammation like if you’re really sore to where you can’t function at your job, maybe maybe, but other than that, just deal with it. Just soreness? Yeah.
Kyle Shrum Â
It’s a badge of honor.
Jerred Moon Â
Yeah.
Kyle Shrum Â
It comes with training.
Jerred Moon Â
I know Yeah, Carl and I love being sore. Dom’s
just dialing you. Well,
Jerred Moon Â
I’ve never asked the other two of you. But you’ve never chimed in when we said that we liked it. So I’m just assuming you both don’t like it.
Joe Courtney Â
I was letting you have your bromance. All right. Yeah. No,
Ashley Hicks Â
I like Dom’s, too. The only time I’ve ever had some so bad was after my first time I ever did Murph. And I did it with CrossFit and I did it with a band The kipping pull ups. And my underneath my armpit like this muscle here. swole up so bad. Talking about inflammation. Like it was awful. I couldn’t even like lift my arms than this. But other than that, I like Dom’s, unless it’s like something crazy like that. Shall we get into the book review?
Jerred Moon Â
Yeah. So we’re talking about dirty jeans? A book by Dr. Ben Lynch. I think I have that. Right. Yes. And he’s talking about basically epigenetics, right. So this is a relatively new field, I did write about it a little bit in my book killing comfort, I talked about the your ability to change your genes, I think epigenetics is a really cool field of study. And there’s not a ton of information out there, because this is all relatively new. And I kind of unpack that in my book about how the Human Genome Project, you know, led to all these different advances like all this stuff is relatively new. My might already feel commonplace for some people like 23andme, or whatever you send off some spit, and you, you’ve given get this full genetic profile back. So it’s really cool how how quickly we’re advancing in this field of study, but I don’t think it’s really hit the medical field that much to a point where it’s going to be useful or beneficial. Like everywhere, you kinda have to find an expert, right? You cannot find like a Ben Lynch or somebody who’s who’s into that stuff. And even then it gets like, how, how well do you really know this, this is like a brand new stuff that you have been studying it for 40 years, because that’s impossible. Like it’s not it’s not even been around that long. So there’s a lot to unpack here. I’d like to hear everyone else’s opinion. But I would say that his his book is a five digit summit on myself is a crash course on epigenetics and things, things you can do to express your genes in better ways. But I do have some, as always pros and cons to this book, so I can get into those. But I’d love to hear your thoughts first.
Ashley Hicks Â
So the book is basically broken down into three parts he talks about, can you control your genes, which you know, dives into, you know, the difference between genetics and epigenetics, meet your dirty dreams. So he like lists out every single, every single gene that could be potentially dirty. And then he gives you a clean gene protocol. So I really love this book, because I actually tested for a dirty gene. Again, Jared just talked about finding a professional who uses this kind of stuff to help you. And a functional medicine doctor is a great example of this, my functional medicine doctor, when I did my first panel blood, this, she tested me for three of the genes and one came back positive and mine was mthfr, which he calls the helps with methylation, right? So what I loved about it was he he basically shared stories of people who had each of these genes and what that were, that were dirty, and then what that looked like, but then his overall take was you could not have an actual dirty gene like test positive for it. But you could be dirtying it up with your lifestyle. So I love the fact that he talked about clean up your diet, clean up your lifestyle. Here is where you should start. And I think a lot of people should start nutritionally, I don’t think a lot of people should just dive in and buy supplements and do all of this. I think if you clean it up with a diet, that can be huge for most people, but then where it gets sticky for me is, you know, a lot of stuff that he’s recommending, you know, there’s some things that people have to avoid, like cruciferous vegetables, you know, if you have some sort of iodine issue or anything like that, like so that’s where I’m like, I really love the professional side of it like the functional medicine side. I found it interesting that mthfr has kind of an anger issue. I wouldn’t say that I’m an angry person, but I can get spun up really quickly. And so it was really funny that he lists like all these. Like, what you could potentially have if you have a dirty mthfr? And I was like, Yes, I have that, yes, I have that holy cow, yes, I have that. So I think it would be good for anyone to read this book, take that. He has it in his book as well, if you did get the audio book, you can download the PDF. It’s like an addendum that basically allows you to take a test to see like, if you have any of these issues, and maybe start with diet, and then if you see that the diet didn’t help you out, then that’s where I would potentially seek further help.
Jerred Moon Â
Just one note on that I thought was funny about the audiobook version is towards the beginning. There must be a table in the book, and he just skips it. And he’s like, if you had any of those simple, and I was like you didn’t read the table. And he there was also wasn’t like he didn’t say, if you know you can go download this thing yet to like figure that out later. But like, I thought that was really funny, because he is like, in paragraph starts. next paragraph He’s like, Alright, so if any of that was you? Like, if what was?
Ashley Hicks Â
What was me?
Jerred Moon Â
Yeah, so that’s just like a more technical critique of the book. But it only happened that one time that I’m gonna remember. So, yeah.
Kyle Shrum Â
Oh, good, I get to go. I feel like Jared and Joe are gonna have a lot to say about this, I don’t really have a whole lot to say about it. So I, I enjoyed the book. But man, for me, it was a bit of a slog, trying to get through all the technical jargon of it. Even with reading, a lot of the stuff that we read a lot of the studies we read and all that kind of stuff, there was pain, there was a lot of technical jargon in it. And so just be aware of that, you know, if you pick this one up, there’s a lot of technical scientific jargon in there. That’s, at least for me, it was kind of hard to I had to take pauses Normally, I don’t have to pause a book, like especially listening to it, I can just listen to the whole thing. I retain what I need to retain and, and move on this one I was having like, Okay, I need to stop for a minute. And what did this guy just say? Let’s let’s think about this. It was really helpful, though, as Ashley said, the the PDF that comes to the audio book, going through that and kind of seeing it in written form and kind of seeing the tables and seeing the the questions that he’s talking about and all those. Okay, this makes a little bit more sense. So I get it. But to me, the basic premise of the book is, if you’re having issues, your genes could be causing those issues. And basically, the fix is nutrition. And I was just like, Yeah, right, all. I’m all about that. That’s absolutely what I thought. And I agree with Ashley as well. If you pick up this book, and you find some things that are going on, and you kind of narrow it down to certain things start with just kind of changing your diet, which is what he says to like, the first thing that he says is like you need to hear here are some things that you can eat, you know, things to add to your diet, things to potentially avoid in your diet that are going to help you with this, and then kind of moving on to supplementation and things like that. But I would also say, when it comes to this, just be patient, because it’s going to take a it’s going to take a while this is not going to be a quick fix type deal, which we’re not really about quick fixes around here anyway, this is not going to be a quick fix type deal where this is exactly what’s wrong me, this is how to fix it. Next week, I’m going to be good, I feel like it’s really going to take you some time to kind of narrow in on what your issue actually is. And then it’s going to take some time to implement the proper process to get you out of it and get you cleaned up. Especially if your genes have been your lifestyle or just the way that you were born, your genes are expressing themselves this way, it’s gonna take some time to reverse that. And so that’s just be patient with it. And like, like Ashley said, as well, I’ll also agree, maybe you’ll need to find a professional to help you out with this. And it may not be something that you can just fix on your own, that I think this is a good primer of Hey, this is a good, it’s a good primer on what the potential issue could be and what some potential solutions could be. But I feel like having somebody to walk you through it and help you through it and give you advice as well is also going to help so that’s what I took away from it. I think it’s a good book. I enjoyed it. It was pretty technical. But I think the overall premise it really just kind of reinforces everything that we talked about, of really trying to stay away from processed food, eating whole foods and using nutrition to heal yourself.
Ashley Hicks Â
I will say to Kyle I, I like what you talked about like it might take a little bit like if you are eating poorly and then you start again. cut those things out, you will go through a detoxification process like, you know, even when I did an elimination diet and I eat pretty clean, most of the time, I had to go through a detoxification process. So it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad. It just means that potentially your body is getting rid of all that stuff. And I also liked to he talked about toxins, like ways of getting rid of that he talked about sauna usage, Jared loves his sauna. He talked about Epsom salt baths, you know, he talked about how to avoid unnecessary toxins that are in day to day life as well, which was pretty cool, like receipts, don’t get a receipt, everything’s online these days, like, just tell your cashier No, thank you. Or nowadays, everything is like, can you email me my receipt versus print my receipt, which is kind of cool.
Joe Courtney Â
Put your hand in your shirt, like rich,
Kyle Shrum Â
don’t touch me wear gloves, disposable gloves on,
Ashley Hicks Â
I mean, in the time of Corona than they do. That’s it, nobody
Jerred Moon Â
hands you anything. Anyways, that’s true. Joe.
Joe Courtney Â
So I definitely have some positives and negatives with the book, I think this isn’t a book that you start with. And by any means, I think this is like a step three or four, after you’ve, you know, done all the other books and things that we’ve already suggested, you know, cleaned up your diet, gotten your sleep in order, done some nasal breathing, you know, whatever, everything that we said. His clean jeans protocol is good. But it’s once again, basically everything that we already say, and the three elements, and eating clean and doing all these things, all these steps. Because most of time, if you’re having issues, it’s probably a lot of those things are going to clear up. And if you’re not clearing up, if you still have issues, and you need to seek other help, then maybe it is a gene thing. And you might need to dive into something like this. So in that regard, it is great. If you have some more serious issues that you’re just things aren’t getting cleared up just from, you know, being super healthy and super conscious about stuff. And you need to take another step, but there’s a lot to unpack with this. And it can be easily you can easily get lost going through this and be overwhelmed. And I think you can even get a little bit of the Web MD effect to where you Google your, your, your symptoms, and you’re like, Oh, well, he says I got cancer. When you go through all these genes, he’s gonna say, Yep, this gene causes this, this gene causes this and you can be like, I have all that I have all that this is me, all my genes are dirty. So I think it’s gonna be really hard to get lost and a lot of these things. But it could also be really beneficial if you actually have some of these issues. It’s also one of those books where you know, a lot of a lot of the best books that I recommend and like are the ones that you can take this book, and you can implement and you can be good to go and make such a difference. And this book, it’s like, read this, start here. And then when you’re done, come back and then we’ll go to the next step. This is like step one of Okay, if you already cleaned this up, well, then you have to have a gene test, you have to meet with somebody, you have to figure out what supplements to take from there. You have to it’s like just getting your your your toes in the water. But as I said, if you actually have issues that need clearing up and you know, deeper problems, it could be well worth it. So yeah, I know I actually you’ve been doing all kinds of tests, but you’ve already been eating clean and doing all kinds of good stuff even way before that. So this isn’t like you start with this book and go hey, I need a gene test. I need all these supplements. I need all these things because I got some dirty jeans. Hey,
Ashley Hicks Â
I’m angry. I got an empty.
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah, yeah. actually used to get less angry. She’s clean those jeans, whatever that is. Yeah, so I think that is really important. I have one last thing I just came or what the hell it was.
I’m trying to look at your notes for you.
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah. I’ll just let Jared go until I think of what I was gonna say next. He’s gonna
Kyle Shrum Â
pop in randomly.
Yep. Just start talking.
Jerred Moon Â
Don’t interrupt my flow here. Okay, I actually I really agree with everyone has said, I’ll start by saying I think Ashley is a great example of the process when it comes to health problems. Because, you know, and hopefully you don’t mind Actually, I mean, you’ve shared everything anyway. But like, she started down this path, she knew something wasn’t right. And her immediate reaction was not I’m gonna go get a gene test and see if I have a snip. That’s gonna be a problem. It was okay, I’m gonna double down on nutrition. Okay, I’m gonna make sure stress is is in check and like all these things, one after another. And now we’re here. You know, now we’re here after a very long process, and I feel like like Joe said, like that’s, that’s the process that you have to go through. When you are you headed down this path. And so my actual advice for anybody in this field are doing this stuff is this dude, don’t start in epigenetics, okay? Cuz you will. And this, these are my critiques of his books, his of his book one, he has way too many calls to action for his program in the book, look, I sell things too. I’ve written books, that was ridiculous. It was like every other paragraph. So I’m going to give a con a mark on in there, that was absurd, you should just present a great a bunch of information. In the end of your book, I think you’re awesome. Presented not every other paragraph that was it was a bit ridiculous. But he does have a lot of great information, He is an expert in this field. So he can do what he wants. It’s just a personal view of how I think an author should present themselves. But you, you need to eat healthy fruits, vegetables, protein, filter, your water, filter your air, reduce stress, focus on sleep, if you have all those things dialed in for a year, and then you still have some mysterious health problem that’s not resolving itself. Maybe work with a functional med doc. And and have them do this, don’t do it on yourself either. Because trying to this, this is like building a rocket in your backyard. And you’re just gonna Google rocket science, right? You’re like, you know what, there’s enough YouTube videos about rocket science out there. I think I can build a shuttle to the moon. Let’s do it. That’s how I feel about epigenetics. You can screw up so many things. If you’re just like, yeah, so I had this snip on my 23andme test. So I’m going to go buy this supplement and this dosing, but you have no idea, the cascade of effects that could have on other things, I really do think bodies take care of themselves. So if you do all these other things, and he even mentioned it, like you do all these other things for a long period of time that your genes should kind of clean up themselves, right and handle and I hope that’s the case for most people. So if you have no mysterious health problems, right now, you can probably avoid this book altogether in epigenetics in general. But if you do have something and you feel like everything else dialed in, this might be a good place. So there could be a few people listening who were like, No, I’m in that place. Like, I feel like I do everything right, and I’m still having a problem, then great, this is an opportunity for you. But otherwise, it’s not because I think that there’s this like, it’s like an unseen side of health and fitness world that I think can happen to people is you learn too much. Rob wolf has talked about this with people he’s worked with on the Paleo diet. It becomes this obsessive compulsive num Yeah, I’m allergic to kale, like, you know, and like this, you go down these like rabbit holes, because you’ve done too much research. And you’ve you’ve done like, you’re diving into too many things. So I think this one can can push you overboard. So clean up your lifestyle, then you go down this path. And the other problem I had with it, I think he was letting too many people off by their genes. And this is kind of my point in the killing comfort book. Look, we can have a snip or whatever, that causes us some sort of reaction, talking about anger, or whatever. But like, he brought up some example. And this is the one that frustrated me the most where this guy was like, basically, I’m an I’m a complete asshole to my kids. And he was like, well, it’s cuz you got a snip. We’re gonna fix it. I’m like, I think that no doubt that person has that snip, but I guarantee it’s within his conscious control to not be an asshole to his kids. I don’t care what kind of genetic problem you have. So I think it’s a slippery slope. It’s like this amazing technology. Like, we’re like, you could fix so many crazy health problems that we didn’t even know you could fix in the past. That’s awesome. But at the same time, you can’t let it be a crutch. This is what I think happens with Gene some people have, like they’re overweight, or they’re their parents had something or whatever. And so they have this crutch of like, well, I’m just this way because my genes are this way. And I don’t want epigenetics to do that same thing, where you’re like, sorry, I mean to you all the time I have this snip actually have a card, if you if you want to see like I’ve been tested for it. I’m just an asshole all the time. It’s a snip. I can’t do anything about it. But that’s the that’s the direction Our world is headed, right? Like you can’t discriminate about anybody for anything. And trust me, I’m not pro discrimination. I’m saying but you, there shouldn’t be an excuse for everything. Like, you can’t get fired at your job for being an asshole because you’ve been genetically tested to have a snip that says it’s okay to be an asshole. Like, I just don’t think that that’s actually an okay thing. So I think it’s a slippery slope with these things. At the same time, though, if you do, like I read some of those things, and I was like, Oh,
I want for one.
Jerred Moon Â
I’m not going to get tested. I’m not going down this field. As of right now. I have no mysterious health problems. If I do, maybe I’ll go to I think it would stress me out more to get all these tests to be like, Oh, crap, I have that that and that. Like, I don’t want to go down that path right now. Maybe I will later but I think it would cause me more stress than it’s worth. So I’m staying away from it. But at the same time, if you do have a snip, I’m not saying that that’s a false thing. Like if you have this snip that like gives you a short temper or you makes it to where you can’t think clearly or focused or whatever. You need to go fix those things. It’s not crutches not a permanent, I’m allowed to be this way, because I have a gene that makes me this way is no, you’ve identified the problem. Now you have to go fix it. So I think that this is a great place to get into epigenetics if it is necessary. But if you are otherwise healthy following the three elements, and you’re feeling good, maybe maybe avoid going down the testing, but I know I have a friend who’s was tested, they just randomly did a 23andme, their whole family decided to do it. And he found out he had it’s that one where your body stores copper, I think it’s Wilson’s disease or something like that. Oh, like, your body can’t get rid itself of copper. And he just thought he was getting older, you know, like getting close to 60 and was just having regular problems. But he was like, once he got checked out, the doctors were like, yeah, you were like a year or two away from being dead, basically. Wow. And he’s able been able to reverse a lot of that and like, go on all the protocols needed. And forgive me if I’m, if I’m quoting the wrong disease, it’s, I think it’s called Wilson’s disease, but it’s one where your body can’t rid itself of copper. Anyway. So there are amazing things that have come out of this right. And so like getting randomly tested could be helpful as well. But I just think that it, it can go both ways with when you’re talking about jeans.
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah, so the thing that I The last thing that I had was that actually I did like that he did even as even though he listed off all these things, all these issues if you have these things, and then he would say like, if you have this, this snip, and these issues, then there are some over the counter, you know, supplements and things you can introduce and there’s like see what’s to list off the supplements that you could have. And I liked that he finished it off with now don’t go out and get these supplements are taking them because if you take these supplements, you can also have these bad effects if you don’t actually need them. So find out if you need them first. But then if you find out you need them, then you can actually introduce them and then slowly take them away. So I liked how he did that. So it wasn’t like because people nowadays are Oh, I have this issue. I’m just gonna go take a pill now and it’ll just fix it. But he actually had a caveat an asterick of Hey, no, don’t do this. I’m just saying that if you have this issue, it’s not the end of the world we can treat it and then wean you off of it and then you’ll get better from it. But don’t go out and get this right now.
Jerred Moon Â
Yeah, don’t DIY epigenetics. It sounds ridiculous. But like that’s what the like if you are going to go down this path you have to know as well that it’s expensive. I’ve done some of this with with Emily she’s been through like nutrition coaching and stuff where they they tested stuff and she has to get on certain supplements and luckily she’s all good now but it was really expensive. And that’s fine because I prioritize health over anything else. And so I’m okay with our money going there but it’s just I would never take a genetic test and be like, I got this give me some big 12 make sure it’s methylated and I’m good to go. Like you know you got to work with a professional on these things. But he did he did I would say a good enough job I would even say he could have done a little bit better job on a give him like an ad on saying diet lifestyle, sleep stress, water air, like focus on all the things he does he gives us a disclaimer, but I feel like he should have even been disclaiming it throughout the rest of the book even more because I just think that when you get into health space you can get into like scaring people right and I just I don’t want anybody to go there but good book if you if you need it
Ashley Hicks Â
workout
Jerred Moon Â
workout of the day of the week another guy so got new meet yourself Saturday not new for BCT track we probably two or three times it is well I added what Kyle added so anyway know what the workout is called out and back. And it’s fairly straightforward. You will run if you really need to run need to run i the only other thing you can do I guess is bike. Yeah, you can’t I don’t want I don’t want you rowing because it’s just it takes away the the pleasantries. So anyway, you’re gonna go out for 40 minutes within the heart rate zone of zone two. So run away from your house for 40 minutes at zone two. Once that 40 minutes clicks, you need to turn around and start heading home. And you’re gonna see if you can get home in 20 minutes at zone four or greater. So you need to immediately go from zone to turn around, get into zone four and see if you can get home and half as much time but a much higher heart rate. So the goal is to make it back if you fail to make it back home. Your award is 100 burpees. Kyle added this on he he thought 100 burpees would be over what I thought so do we need to say anything else?
Joe Courtney Â
That’s not really getting that
Kyle Shrum Â
we all get we all get to to give tips, right?
Jerred Moon Â
Yeah, yeah, no, I’m just saying Do I need to brief anything else about the workout? Or no, we’re good fact that you added 100 burpees to it or anything? Okay. Got it. Who gets to give their tips first?
Go, Kyle.
You’ve done it.
Jerred Moon Â
You’re the only one that actually done it.
Kyle Shrum Â
Yeah. So I have done it. Have you been incredibly tough? You know, I looked back at it. And no, I didn’t complete it. I haven’t. It’s, it’s very tough to do.
Jerred Moon Â
I got within a few streets of my house.
Kyle Shrum Â
But I got close. I got close. But I didn’t I didn’t make it back. Also on BCT, we didn’t have the burpees now. So before I do tips, okay. Let me let me clear something up here. And I’m gonna pull a cow, you guys talk about how giveaway stuff behind the scenes. I don’t care because this one needs to get out there. All this is the this is what I need to say, Okay. people in the community. You guys know me? All right. You know me, I’ve been around for a while. You know, that burpees are not my thing. So I want you guys to ask yourselves, of the four of us on this podcast right now. Which one of us would be the least likely to add burpees to any workout for any reason? And which one of us would be the most likely to add burpees to any workout for any reason? Okay, that wasn’t me. Out of out of the four of us. And I’m yeah, so just just ask yourself that question as to where the burpees actually came from? Okay. They know, they know, because it wasn’t me. It was not me. But
Jerred Moon Â
would you disagree with the statement that you are the reason it is 100? burpees.
That’s true.
Jerred Moon Â
So I made a great lawyer,
Kyle Shrum Â
you originally see what I actually said, was, because the unbelievable suggestion of 1000 burpees was thrown out the cat’s original originally. Okay, have 1000 burpees we’re still reeling from 900 burpees. If we’re gonna do burpees at the end, why not cap it at 100. And so maybe that was the guilty parties, like original intent was let’s throw out a crazy number and then see what I can actually get it down to. And maybe I just didn’t go alone. I really
Jerred Moon Â
was to make it 1000 burpees at the end with like, a 15 minute time cap. Meaning it’s impossible to do so it’s not actually prescribing anyone 1000 burpees it’s just 15 minutes of burpees are still horrible.
Kyle Shrum Â
But anyway, any workout 100 burpees out of it anyway. So
Jerred Moon Â
what are your tips Kyle, someone who has complete art done the workout attempted the workout has not completed it as like a finish but like my,
Kyle Shrum Â
my biggest tip is just get your mind ready for this one. Because you’re throwing you know, we know all the zone to work especially like with zone to Murph, you know, everybody hates to zone tumor. Even Jared hates the zone to Murph just because of the mental strain of like, I need to go faster, I want to go faster and and you get out to a point and you’re used to you’re in this zone, you’re in this rhythm of zone two, and you’ve been doing it for a long time, then you have to turn around and you had to kick it up a notch on the way back. And so this is going to be a mental burner, and it’s going to burn everything else as well. But this one is going to be a mental burner of you’re going to be in this rhythm of zone two, and you have to turn around and you have to zip back really fast. And so just get your get your mind ready for this one warm up for it as well. Don’t go into this one cold. Don’t be like, okay, zone two. Not a big deal. I don’t have to do a whole lot of warm up. No, no, you need to warm up. Because at the end of this, the last thing you need on the way back especially if you you’re probably not going to make it all the way back the first time. And you’re probably going to have burpees at the end of it now. So the last thing you need on top of everything is a pull hammy. So like make sure that you’re warming everything up. And you’re good to go. As far as as far as music, y’all know me. That is my workout playlist. There’s a lot of Metallica on there. You’re probably going to be angry, so maybe maybe some angry music. throwing in some angry music on that. Anyway, don’t. Don’t get lost. Don’t get hit by anything. Don’t pull a hammy. And apparently now you have to do burpees we didn’t have to do burpees on the BCT version. Sorry, enough on BCT so this is thrown in there now. So anyway, Joe, I’m gonna pick Joe this time.
Joe Courtney Â
So Mike the zone portion, just go for a walk and breathe in and out of a paper bag, your heart rail to get right up and you’re not gonna get very far hack that. No,
Jerred Moon Â
you do have to kind of be strategic about your zone two and zone four. That’s my only tip.
Joe Courtney Â
Well, I was gonna take what you said the other day, and we were off air just talking about the workout stay at the very bottom of zone two. Yeah. And then when it you know, like right at your 60%. And then right when that 40 minute markets turn around and go and hope. I feel like this is this is gonna be a mentally zone to Murph situation to where you might start off going, Yeah, I think at the pace of Matt, I think I’ll be fine. And then when you get to the end, you get capped, and you’re just like, end in sight, you’re just gonna just be so pissed if you like on your street, like 100 200 meters, 300 or whatever away, and you’re like, no freakin way.
Jerred Moon Â
What’s great is if you’re a mile away, you still have to get home. That’s my favorite part about it.
Joe Courtney Â
They just walk,
Jerred Moon Â
because you just ran away, but it doesn’t matter, you just ran for 60 minutes, you can either do your burpees right there, and then go home. Either way, you still gotta get home. That’s why I think that you shouldn’t do it on a rower or treadmill or anything.
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah, I’m just trying to think of how I’m mentally trying to think of what I would run at a low zone too. And then when I was running way back, I will
Jerred Moon Â
say programming all the zone to that we have is a disservice to our athletes for this workout. Because if you if you were brand new, and you never do zone to work, you might be able to knock this out of the park, you might just be like, because when you when you first start zone two, you suck at it, like you’re like, yep, wow. And then you get better and you can run, you can run at a certain pace, and like you get better and better. So our athletes who’ve been around for a while, I’m sorry. You know, for anybody who’s new to this stuff, it might be really easy. You might just go for a walk, you’ll be in zone two, and then you get to turn around and run as fast as you can back home. It might be super easy, but for anybody who’s barely trained in zone two, you’re gonna get pretty far unfortunately, in 40 minutes, and then it may be impossible to get back in 20 minutes is Oh, yeah.
Joe Courtney Â
Pretty sure it’s gonna be close to a 5k. just shy around three miles, I think,
Jerred Moon Â
at 40 minutes or the 60 minutes. 40 got it.
Joe Courtney Â
By the low end,
Kyle Shrum Â
you’re saying? You’re saying you’re gonna get a 5k in in 40 minutes? And then it’ll be another 5k back?
Joe Courtney Â
Yeah, I think I always think it’ll be close to three miles because the Loop The Loop at my, on, like where I live, there’s a loop and that loop that I do is almost exactly 5k. And when I did previous, though, to when it was just not Massa to, it would be like 40 to 4030 minutes. I would do it in now I guess stay at the low part. might bring that down to just under three miles. But yeah.
Kyle Shrum Â
And if you don’t make it back for that next 5k and 20 minutes, you got 100 burpees. Yeah, I
Jerred Moon Â
just run into whoops, really focused on those burpees
Kyle Shrum Â
I’m trying to highlight the fact that
Jerred Moon Â
we didn’t need those.
Kyle Shrum Â
No, we don’t we don’t need them.
Joe Courtney Â
And then before we record it, so yeah,
Kyle Shrum Â
I got again only are ready to brief this thing because I’ve done it before. And treachery. Like my worst nightmare.
Jerred Moon Â
But did you meet yourself when you just did the workout without the burpees?
Kyle Shrum Â
Yeah, make it back. And I was like, man, I feel I felt bad because I didn’t make it back. Alright, Ashley, I’m going to Joe supposed to pick you but
Jerred Moon Â
bypassing here.
Ashley Hicks Â
Anything else to add to what you guys said? So
Joe Courtney Â
what do you listen to?
Ashley Hicks Â
So I just said I would listen to a podcast on the way out is to keep my heart rate and don’t to and then listen to EDM to keep the heart rate up for zone. Well. Yeah, so far on the way back, do you? Nevermind, I’m not gonna even make him make this worse. Jared?
No more suggestions.
Ashley Hicks Â
I know, I was like, he said, some forbear like what if? Is there a penalty if you hit some five
or greater?
Kyle Shrum Â
Yeah.
Jerred Moon Â
I mean, I would be careful with zone five.
Ashley Hicks Â
For sure.
Jerred Moon Â
I’m just saying you could go there but like 20 minutes in zone five. You might be dead. I don’t know. I’ve never spent. That’s That’s a lie. I’ve definitely spent 20 or 30 minutes in zone five is called Murph, PR. And it it was awful. But I have a screenshot of that because I thought it was so funny. I spent like the first 40 seconds of my Murph. My Fast Murph ever I was when I was on my Apple Watch my fastener favors like the first part of the run just like getting down my street was in like zone one, zone two, you know, then I got into like zone four and then I got into zone five, and like stayed in zone five. Further that mile, all my calisthenics and the last mile And it was death. So it’s possible but I wouldn’t recommend it.
Kyle Shrum Â
If you die, you don’t have to do burpees
Jerred Moon Â
There we go. My recommendations for this one, you obviously need a heartrate monitor, I would stay away from math, we I know we throw around some some math, that’s more for training, I really wouldn’t do it with this one, because it’s just not going to be the map zones are just hard. You can you can accomplish a lot more I know for Joe and I specifically our maps are quite a bit higher than our regular zone two, and a lot more, I can get a lot further in a map zone two, then I can’t have regulars on to so I would go regular zone to stay at the bottom, even to where you’re going slows so slow that you’re fluctuating between dropping into zone one and having to like speed up a little bit to get into zone two. So that’s what I would do. I don’t normally game these things, right. I don’t tell people the game either. But I’m telling you to game this one, because 20 minutes and zone four is punishment enough. So do that game your zone two as much as possible. Don’t do math. And then on zone four, it’s really, it might even take you a little bit to get into zone four. But don’t I made this mistake, I honestly think we’ve got three or four times the first time I did it, I could not get into zone four. So quickly enough. And so I just sprinted as fast as I could. And so I was going like, whatever like a 430 mile pace sprint, because that’s still not even like an incredibly fast sprint, it’s just really fast, right, and it’s only took for like 30 to 60 seconds. And then I did get into zone four, but you’re pretty tired after that. And then you have to run like 18 more minutes, 19 more minutes in zone four. So don’t do that, just what I would do is my last two minutes of this fear zone to creep that up to higher end zone to start running a little bit faster to your students, zone two, which are the very threshold of zone two, zone three, the last two minutes, and then when it’s time to click over, pick a very, like, I don’t know, whatever your mile time is like your PR mile time, probably 20% above that ish, pick that pace and just stay there and your heart rate will go to zone four, and then it’ll kind of get locked. I can get surprisingly comfortable and zone for good. Now after a lot of VCT training. Like I can run in zone for for 20 to 30 minutes without much of an issue. But actually getting back is still really hard because it’s half as much time. So that those are all my tips are very, very strategic for me on this one. Having tried it multiple times on where your heart rate should be at what points and everything. So those are all my tips for out back.
Joe Courtney Â
So hold on, if the zone two out, wouldn’t the goal just be turned around and set what every patient needs you to come back out? Like, I guess if you’re in zone four, then I get that that is the goal. But the pace you should be setting should be a hard pace. But like, for me, if I just turn around and run back, I probably won’t hit zone four for at least a solid minute or so.
Jerred Moon Â
Yeah, did I say something different?
Joe Courtney Â
Well, you said to start reading, you said to raise your heart rate before you turn around but really just be said it.
Kyle Shrum Â
Now because we’re saying the top end zone to keep it you don’t want to
Jerred Moon Â
wait zone two, you don’t want to waste a full minute of or even two minutes of your zone for getting there. You know what I mean? Like you want to already be getting creeping up to there. So because I’m talking about not from like a mileage standpoint, I’m talking about from like a physiological how you’re going to feel standpoint of getting to zone four, because going to zone four, from zone two can be a crappy process. Like I was saying like sprinting, like trying to get there. And I think that you just want to try and get there as easily as possible that you that way, you know what your zone for pace is going to be? Because if you do that burn out section to try and get there quickly. Like who are we kidding Joe? For you, it took us six minutes to get into zone four from zero to
Joe Courtney Â
like,
Jerred Moon Â
but if you had already gotten to high zone two, and then you push yourself to a certain pace and you’re like I’m not gonna go faster than this. You might get to zone four within like two minutes as opposed to six minutes.
Joe Courtney Â
It also means at the very end you’re running faster away from home
That’s true.
Joe Courtney Â
That’s what I was at
Jerred Moon Â
he went even deeper on the on the strategy. Yeah. I mean 60 to 120 seconds and zone two even upper end zone two is going to cost you maybe a couple 100 meters. That could be the failure point though to what do I know I haven’t even done it yet. Once I can run again though, I’m gonna do it. I think I got it. I got this one mastered guys brain.
Joe Courtney Â
I’ll actually do this one.
Jerred Moon Â
Then you can you can do it on a rower. You can do it on a treadmill. It’s not like it’s impossible. I said at the beginning, like, obviously, you just you’re just tracking distance, right? You’re trying to match that distance in shorter amount of time, but it’s just different when you have to walk home after you failed.
Joe Courtney Â
Would you know just completely, you know, down the road if you have fun with it, would you do this as a weighted carry? What?
Jerred Moon Â
Now? What? I think zone four just dangerous enough.
Joe Courtney Â
I think it’s hard to stay zone two with a weighted carry. That’s like, stop and set it down.
Kyle Shrum Â
I mean, weighted carries are my thing, man, but like, no.
Joe Courtney Â
sandbag. We’re not saying No, I’m kidding. I’m not
Kyle Shrum Â
throwing that in there for this.
Joe Courtney Â
Especially to get very far.
Jerred Moon Â
Oh, yeah. And competitors were best. I just kidding. I’m just kidding. I love how I’m playing q Tyler. Joe’s like and apparently Jared wants competitors to
Joe Courtney Â
I was just like, I don’t know. There was never anything that we talked about. You I just see the write up. I was like, oh, okay, that’s cool. I
Jerred Moon Â
don’t add these things. Last minute I write them down in my notes. I just don’t think I share them. Alright guys, let’s let’s wrap it up. We have a lot of stuff going on at garage gym athlete right now from being able to submit your own garage gym and get free stuff, the Murph burner track fundraiser Not to mention the amazing community and awesome programming, right? So go to garage, gym athlete comm check out the site. We have a lot of different ways to get involved in these things. It’s hard to tell you how to do these things on a podcast. So really just visiting garage gym, athlete calm, whether you are someone thinking about joining and you want to start a free trial or learn more about our methods, get involved with a fundraiser, submit your garage gym, just go do those things at garage mathlete.com. Everybody who’s a member of our community, thank you so much for being a part of the community. We really appreciate you. That’s all we got for this week. Thanks for listening or watching